Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Like other members, I pay a huge tribute to our guest speakers this morning and the incredible work they do. In my part of the country the St. Vincent de Paul and the carers do huge work. I am sure Ms Cox knows Bernie Dowling down there, who does a lot work and week by week is always on to us and the Chairman about things. Particularly in rural areas, where there may be older people living on their own and in not great conditions, the St. Vincent de Paul does great work. These people may not have any close family or a lot of income. The St. Vincent de Paul people never want to be identified - and that is all part of the organisation - but they are very much alert and alerting us to situations if needs be.

I was very interested in the debate this morning about the definition of poverty. May I throw one thing out there? I am not asking the witnesses for a direct answer to this, but maybe they could look at the definition of poverty. In my view, they should add "exceptional circumstances" because the finest of people who can have the finest of incomes and the finest of comforts can for whatever reason fall into a trap. Whether or not they are at fault is not the issue. This brings huge poverty to families. I find it particularly sad when kids suffer in such a situation. Probably because of where they stood in society at one stage, there might not be much sympathy out there for them, but we always have to remember there are innocent parties here and those innocent parties have to be looked after. Again, I acknowledge the St. Vincent de Paul and the carers in this regard. They are very much to the fore. However, we need to look at exceptional circumstances. I am dealing with two cases at the moment. Do not worry, Chairman, I will not mention names or say where they are. One is in the south of the country and one is in the west of the country. People have been suspended from work for minor issues, including from semi-State companies. An investigation has been ongoing for a number of months. They were getting a payment, an allowance, from the company, which has been cut off and now they have been asked to sign up for a jobseeker's payment. The issue, however, is that if they do so, it will threaten their getting their job back in that company. I know one case where people have gone almost four months without income and not knowing where to go. Only in recent weeks that person, through a connection, came to me. The person knows me and knows this person very well. This poor individual has massive bills and is not able to pay anything at the moment. The person has no income. I have got on to the community welfare officer and I think something is going to happen. In all this we must acknowledge in general that community welfare officers and the Department are exceptionally good in extremely sad cases. I want to put that on the public record. We need to put "exceptional circumstances" in the definition of poverty because there are people falling through the net and going through very hard times. It is nobody's fault; it is just the way things fall. Many of those people will never want to look for help.

I agree with Deputy Ó Cuív on HAP payments. I will not rehash the whole thing. It definitely needs to be addressed and dealt with. There is a lot of stress, particularly among lone parents. Deputy Ó Cuív is right about that.

I also support Deputy Kerrane and others on the bin allowance. Ms Duffy referred to this, and I pay tribute to her because I know she put in a lot of effort to get that situation sorted out, particularly for people with children or elderly people who need to use these pads. I can tell the committee that the bills for these people's bins are still huge. They have improved, but it is incredible that in 2021, in Ireland - and I know Ms Duffy sympathises with me on this - we cannot solve this issue. It is incredible that the GDPR and other issues can cause this distress to people. Here we have the political system and a decision made to give the money and we cannot give out the money. These are not the people, by the way, who go down the laneways and byways and dump their material in the countryside. Any of them I deal with pay their bills and they are getting it very hard. We have to make an all-out effort to ensure what Deputy Naughten brought in when he was Minister is distributed to give these people a little relief. If we do not, it is the system failing the most vulnerable, and surely none of us wants to be part of a system like that.

I acknowledge the great work all the witnesses are doing. So many people are looked after. Discussing issues every year and €5 for this and €10 for that and a big Budget Statement is not the way to go forward in tackling poverty. We need a new approach and new ideas. If there is anything else the witnesses think I or my colleagues can lobby for on this, on these issues, I would be more than willing to do it.