Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Quite a number of the issues and questions I had have been raised already by Senator Joe O'Reilly and well answered by Ms Mullen and Mr. Crowley and Ms Corcoran.

I will try to pick out one or two other issues. It is very timely we are having this conversation because in the car coming up this morning I heard about a report which indicated that unemployment levels will reduce to 10% in the foreseeable future, and the ESRI is predicting a boom post Covid and a big take-up in business across the board.

I picked up on a few points. I was interested to note that 32.7% of Traveller women are solely responsible for looking after the home and family, as opposed to 17% of the non-Traveller community. Am I to infer there is an abdication of responsibility on the part of Traveller men and they are putting the entire onus on the women to raise families, look after the household and whatever they are doing themselves? I put that out there as a question that one of the witnesses might want to pick up on.

I am pleased about the suggestion on Traveller-specific internships. It seems to be a very good way of getting people to initiate a process whereby Travellers could get work experience and potential employers would be able to take them on on a trial basis without having to commit fully. Internships generally are quite useful, and it seems to me it would be no different for the Traveller community.

Community employment schemes have been covered, so I will leave that. I wonder about self-employment in the Traveller community. I am from Listowel in north Kerry where we have a sizeable Traveller community and there are some very successful self-employed Travellers. They are doing well in the community and the wider area. Travellers used to be involved in scrap and such services as tarmacadam, guttering and similar work. A lot of people used to be reluctant to employ Travellers, but they have proven themselves. If Travellers are self-employed, then they would probably be the best people in the world to employ other Travellers. Perhaps we should try to encourage self-employment in the Traveller community as much as possible.

I know a good bit about the deficiencies and drawbacks in Traveller education as I was a teacher myself. My wife was a primary teacher and she used to teach in a special Traveller school in Rathkeale for many years. She subsequently started teaching in Listowel where the Travellers were taught in a mixed environment. Do the witnesses have any views on which approach is the optimum? Is it to have their own special schools or to have integrated schooling? My wife and I guess that integration is best, but I would like to know what the witnesses feel about that.

There is a big responsibility on all State agencies in particular to show leadership. I single out the local authorities as an example. They have a lot of contact with Travellers, if only in the housing area. Should there be an onus on county councils to take on a quota of Travellers? I am talking about some kind of balance. I am comparing the situation to having a gender balance because there is a lot of suitable work that Travellers would be able to do for county councils. I give that as one example. I am sure there are many other State agencies such as harbour boards and others that could do the same. That is something that should be considered.

I never heard about Bounce Back Recycling. It is marvellous. Did it come from the group's own initiative or did some entrepreneur get the business going and then decide to employ Travellers exclusively? I guess I am answering my question. That is a first. It would be marvellous if it could be replicated throughout the country.

I know people who, if they were listening to this conversation, might think we were crazy. I am just going to say it, as there is no point in not saying it. There are people out there who believe Travellers do not want to work and that they are gaming the system all the time. There are high rates of invalidity pensions and other such benefits among the Traveller community. I do not buy into that myself. I have given Travellers employment when I was in business and I found them exceptionally good employees. I incurred a fair amount of wrath from some of my colleagues, even some of my supporters. I was asked why I was giving such a fellow a job, as he would draw the rest of them around the place. There is a tendency in the Traveller community to stick together. I had to deal with that. I had to make it clear to Johnny that I was giving him a job, not giving a job to his brother or his family. There is resistance and racism out there. We know that. It is very easy for people to tar everyone with the one brush. They say Travellers will take us down and they are on the make all the time. They are human beings who have their own culture. There is good and bad among them like everybody else. If they get a fair crack at the whip, they can do well. They are up against so much. I thank the witnesses for their presentations today. I found them very interesting. I learned a good bit. Perhaps those questions could be picked up.