Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Chairman. My colleague, Senator Blaney, is trying to connect to the meeting. I welcome the contributions of Professors FitzGerald and Morgenroth. It is great to have them with us for this discussion.

Professor FitzGerald gave a very impressive statistic on early school-leavers and the success we have had in this State in reducing considerably the percentage of pupils who leave school early. That success was the result of direct interventions. Delivering Equality of Opportunity in Schools, DEIS, was particularly important and second-chance education initiatives made a difference as well. They show that specific interventions work and can bring a new belief in education not just to individuals and families but also to certain communities. That has a great downflow effect.

I am a person who has always believed in, and aspired to, a united Ireland. In the meantime, however, we must work as assiduously as possible within the existing political and constitutional architecture on this island. That means we must work the Good Friday Agreement. We have six implementation bodies operating under the agreement, including Waterways Ireland and Tourism Ireland. Alongside those bodies, it was agreed at the time that there would be six areas identified for co-operation, including education, agriculture and health. It has always disappointed me that we have not moved on and grown the number of implementation bodies. I have argued in the past that education was an obvious choice in that respect. When I was at college in UCD, there was a sizable number of students from Northern Ireland. It is very disappointing that there is no longer the same number of students from Northern Ireland at third level in this State, and vice versa. Such a movement of students would be very beneficial.

Do the witnesses agree that nobody could have any qualms or concerns from a political point of view about having an extra implementation body dedicated to further and higher education and perhaps research and innovation as well? Do they agree that putting in place such a body to deal with the provision of education, research and innovation on an all-Ireland basis might help to reduce the problems we are discussing, particularly in terms of students from Northern Ireland who study and graduate in colleges in Britain and do not return to the North? Keeping those qualified people and their pool of skills and expertise on our island would contribute to all of the island. We can talk about a united Ireland and what needs to be done but we need to do practical things in the meantime. I have always had a very strong belief that education can be a powerful force in that respect. I sincerely hope some consideration will be given to this particular proposal.

Professor Morgenroth and I come from roughly the same area and we know the deficiencies and particular challenges that face communities in Cavan and Monaghan and north of us, in counties Fermanagh, Tyrone and Armagh, as well. Professor Morgenroth mentioned human capital as being hugely important. Might he envisage some major educational development focused on the central Border area that could be beneficial in dealing with some of the many challenges facing us in that area? He wrote a paper some years ago which demonstrated very clearly the huge effect Brexit would have on the central Border area and the economy there, in Cavan and Monaghan and our neighbouring counties north of the Border. Unfortunately, that challenge has not gone away. We need specific interventions in those areas. Could there be a thinking outside the box with a view to having some greater enhancement of further education, including research facilities or similar? The fact we do not talk about education on an all-Ireland basis is a huge deficiency. In the last Dáil, when the Bill to establish technological universities was going through, I asked in the debate whether some of our institutes of education could merge with similar institutes or universities north of the Border to form alliances.

I do not think we were bold enough or progressive enough in terms of the potential to develop further and higher education on an all-Ireland basis. Again, I sincerely thank the witnesses for their contributions.