Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

In the spirit of an exchange, there is something I would like to get the Deputy's views on. I heard him continually make the case for zero Covid, particularly when we were dealing with the consequences of the third wave in our country. Given that we have not met the criteria of zero Covid, as he described, I would really be interested in hearing whether he is supportive of us reopening the economy in the way we are doing at the moment. I am interested in hearing his views on this but I will answer the questions he put to me because he has put serious questions to me. I am interested in hearing whether he, as a leading proponent of zero Covid, still stands by that view when we have levels of community transmission that are higher than he would have indicated as being safe in respect of our economy reopening.

To deal with the questions the Deputy put to me, because I accept I am before this committee to answer its questions, although I believe in debate and argument on matters, the Government has not made a decision on the future of the PUP but it is a general payment. It is a payment that we make available to everybody and is at a level that is significantly higher than other rates of job support payments we make available to people, for example, through the jobseeker's payments. It is significantly higher than that. As we get to a place where our economy is reopening, we are going to have to make decisions at the right point about what the level of that pandemic unemployment payment is. What the country will not be able to afford is a situation where our economy has reopened and is approaching a degree of normality and programmes like the PUP, the employment wage subsidy scheme and CRSS are unchanged and still exist in their current format. That is where the Deputy and I differ. Over time, as employment grows, I believe our deficit will need to fall to keep our country safe from other challenges we could face.

Regarding the Deputy's question on the CRSS, for months in the Dáil, many Deputies called on me to bring in a scheme to support businesses that were required to close due to public health guidance. That is what the CRSS is. It is an immensely powerful and successful policy tool and has been acknowledged as such by all those on it. It will pay out probably over €500 million to businesses that need it most. I was asked to put in place a scheme for businesses that were required to close. That is what I did through the Revenue Commissioners and both the Revenue Commissioners and I stepped up to doing that. We then acknowledged that there were businesses that were not supported by that scheme. That is why a variety of other schemes were brought forward that look to address the needs referred to by the Deputy. Schemes like the tourism interruption scheme introduced by the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media and the Covid-19 business aid scheme introduced by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment involve tens of millions of euro and try to meet the different needs that are there. I acknowledge that there are still some businesses and citizens who feel they are not getting the support they need or deserve but we have now spent €12 billion on these different schemes to meet those needs, so I can assure the Deputy it is not for lack of effort or intent on our behalf and we are looking to address the issues to which he referred.