Ms Lorraine Dempsey:

The Senator raised the issue of having a statutory right and international systems. If we look across the Irish Sea to our neighbours, we see that they have a much more robust statutory legal framework for children with special educational needs. However, while there is a framework in place in the UK, where funding is inadequate, it leads parents to tribunals. We do not have a statutory appeal system under the EPSEN Act 2004. That is one of the elements that was not implemented. However, if we bring in an appeals system under a statutory framework, we do not want to end up shepherding families down that road because we simply have not provided for their children in an adequate way. That is the case in the UK, particularly during the Covid pandemic. The funding mechanisms in the UK are through local authorities which have care and education plans. It is an integrated plan rather than a singular education plan. Where the local authorities have made funding cuts, it has often impacted on children with special educational needs there. We do not need to set up a system that becomes adversarial. There are children going to the High Court and their parents are taking cases. We need a system that does not push people through that route because of the lack of resources.

I agree with Ms Hart on why the attitudes of the public are so poor. I hear parents screaming for supports for their children every other day and detailing their bad experiences.

I apologise on behalf of Ms Turley, who has gone back to work, but I wish to speak on her behalf about something she expressed about her lived experience. Ms Turley started in mainstream school and her mother lost confidence in the ability of the school to provide for her needs. Her parent made the decision that she needed to go to a special school. At that young age, it was not Ms Turley's choice or preference. She did not want to be hidden. The following are her own words:

I did not want to be hidden or different. I wanted to interact with others. I wanted to be with people who were going to bring me on.

That has had a long-standing effect on Ms Turley, who ultimately ended up on the Trinity access programme and is in part-time employment. However, her journey through was like that because the right supports were not developed for her school to deliver for her, and her parent the difficult decision to move her. It was not necessarily in the best interests of the child, society or the children in her class.

Ms Dempsey mentioned that inclusion starts with education and inclusive communities. If children are not educated alongside other children with disabilities, they do not get to see them. When children with disabilities grow up into adults with disabilities, sometimes those adults are further segregated and are in services based outside of towns. They are not seen, heard or part of the community. If we are going to pay this forward so that we can improve employment prospects for people with disabilities, it starts here. It starts before they ever get to primary school. In fact, it starts at preschool. That will shift our attitudes further in ten or 15 years' time because they will be the people we grew up with next door who continued their educational pathway alongside us, into employment and so forth.