Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I could not click the button in time to get the slot before Deputy Nolan. I have been listening in and have read all the statements. I thank everyone very much for that. I have also attended the Joint Committee on Key Issues affecting the Traveller Community and education and educational attainment is right up there. This is not just an equality issue. It is about equity and the fact that some people need more in order to achieve what they can for society.

They include all of the people the witnesses represent.

I previously tabled a Commencement matter for AsIAm and I have met many of the staff in the organisation, specifically on the issue of individual educational plans. It is of huge concern to me that 17 years after it was passed, many of the elements of the EPSEN Act 2004 have not been commenced. In the US and UK, these processes are statutory. We can say that most schools do them but as a lawyer, I know that is not really the point. The point is that one must have confidence in the system.

On Deputy Ó Ríordáin's point, nothing in the Constitution lays down the patronage system. It is more a matter of how we as a society organise our educational system. Many will know that I am most passionate about having a citizens' assembly. The point about surveys is one issue. I take on board that when a survey is completed, it can be disheartening to see people's reaction. However, it is about moving the conversation and the dial around how people engage and think about those with disabilities. It is key that we have those conversations to move that dial. What are the witnesses' views on that?

The establishment of a citizens' assembly on education is part of the programme for Government. I believe all of the organisations represented could and should feed into that and try to progress and promote it sooner rather than later. That said, there is a lot of low-hanging fruit, for want of a better term, that can and must be progressed anyway. People have human rights, regardless of whether we have these conversations. We do not need to have the conversations to know that people have human rights.

I agree that rather than saying we would like to do certain things, there is no good reason not to take steps to ensure that people who go before the courts are able to point to a law that sets outs their right, assert that it has been commenced and ask the Department to ensure they receive everything to which they are entitled under that law. I am a former chair of Home Education Network Ireland. I sometimes make the important point that half of those who were home educated chose to do so, while the other half were home educated because they were let down by the education system. There are higher levels of those with disabilities in the home education network than in the general population. That says that we are letting people down.

I think we would all agree with the witnesses' opening statements. It is hard to ask questions that have already been answered. However, I would like to hear their thoughts on the issue of a citizens' assembly. I also note that the establishment of such an assembly does not mean we should not deliver on the other obligations outlined by the witnesses.