Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 14 April 2021

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs

General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion

Photo of Kathleen FunchionKathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

If members or witnesses are experiencing any technical issues, I ask that they let us know through the chat function. If not, we will proceed. Apologies have been received from Senator Keogan.

Before we begin, I remind members who are participating remotely to keep their devices on mute until they are invited to speak. Where possible, I ask that they have their camera switched on while speaking. Members should be mindful that we are in public session. I also remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the place in which Parliament chooses to sit, namely, Leinster House, in order to participate in public meetings. I cannot permit a member to participate where he or she is not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate in this meeting from outside the precincts of Leinster House will be refused.

In this session, we continue our pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of a certain institutional burials (authorised interventions) Bill. We are joined in committee room 3 by Ms Anna Corrigan. Appearing virtually before the committee are Mr. Carl Buckley, Dr. Stephen Donoghue, Dr. Jens Carlsson and forensic archaeologists, Dr. Niamh McCullagh and Mr. Aidan Harte. The witnesses are all very welcome and I thank them for taking the time to prepare opening statements and written submissions.

In order to avoid any confusion during our engagement, I will set out the purpose of today's meeting and how proceedings will be conducted. While acknowledging the harrowing experiences of survivors during their time in mother and baby homes and county homes, the purpose of our meeting is to consider the policy provisions of the proposed legislation. A discussion will take place on the provisions of the general scheme as they relate to the statutory basis and framework under which the Government may decide to authorise interventions at certain sites where manifestly inappropriate burials have taken place associated with institutions operated by or on behalf of the State or in respect of which the State had clear regulatory or supervisory responsibilities. There are also provisions for the establishment of an agency to carry out such interventions.

I remind members and witnesses that they are expected to strictly adhere to the subject matter scheduled for discussion today. I also advise witnesses that the opening statements they read into the record here today should be the statement they provided in advance of this meeting. Any deviation on these matters will be addressed through the Chair.

We are all very much aware of the restrictions Covid-19 has brought to all our lives. It has also severely impacted the scheduling of public committee meetings. However, members of the committee felt it important to hear from those who may be impacted by or have a professional view on the provisions of the general scheme. It is the responsibility of parliamentary committees to consider and discuss topics in a balanced and fair manner. In achieving this goal, it is the committee, and only the committee, which determines the witnesses it engages with and will do so in an unhindered manner. This level of engagement will greatly assist the members of the committee in finalising their scrutiny report on the general scheme. For this reason, and while strictly adhering to Covid-19 safety requirements, four public meetings of the committee have been scheduled over the course of today. It is also expected that we will have further public meetings in the near future to consider this matter further.

The committee wishes to have a productive public engagement. However, I must remind all present that they should not mention names of individuals or organisations even if that information is already in the public domain, nor should they make charges against anyone by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. These are normal parliamentary procedures that exist to ensure engagements are conducted in a constructive way. Before I invite the witnesses to deliver their opening statements, I will read out the standard text regarding the provisions of the Defamation Act to remind them of their rights and obligations.

I want to take a minute to brief the witnesses on the work of the committee since the publication of the report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters and the pre-legislative scrutiny by the committee to date of the general scheme of the proposed Bill. While the committee has been limited in the number of public meetings held due to Covid-19 restrictions, it has afforded priority in its consideration to scrutiny of the proposed Bill, the issues that have arisen following the publication of the report of the commission of investigation, and the desire of members of the committee to ensure justice for the survivors of mother and baby homes. These matters have been discussed at eight of the committee's nine joint meetings held this year. The committee has corresponded with the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, on five occasions on various matters and it has met the Minister and his officials to discuss these issues wherever possible.

The committee has prioritised these issues above the other competing demands of our vast work programme. Insofar as it reasonably can, it stands ready to help facilitate delivery of the recommendations and actions contained in the report into mother and baby homes, however possible, and to undertake robust scrutiny of any and all related legislation referred, such as the general scheme under discussion today.

The public call for submissions on the scheme opened on 22 January, with a deadline of 19 February which we later extended until 26 February. Every effort was made to ensure maximum reach and accessibility during this process. In total, the committee received 426 submissions. The committee has also had substantial stand-alone correspondence from the public on these issues and appreciates the engagement and effort the public have made to date on what are difficult issues. At this point I would like to highlight some of the support services available to anyone affected by the matters under discussion today. There is a dedicated counselling service for former residents of mother and baby homes and its telephone number is 1800 817517.

Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentation they make to the committee. This means that they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, they are expected not to abuse this privilege and it is my duty as Chair to ensure that is the case. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction. I must point out that it is uncertain whether parliamentary privilege will apply to the evidence of witnesses appearing virtually from a location outside of the parliamentary precincts of Leinster House. Therefore, if they are directed to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter, it is also imperative that they comply with any such direction.

I will call on the witnesses in the following order to deliver their opening statement. We will start with Ms Anna Corrigan, then Dr. Stephen Donoghue and Dr. Niamh McCullagh. I invite Ms Corrigan to deliver her opening statement. She has five minutes.

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