Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

If any members or witnesses participating remotely are experiencing any sound or technical issues, will they let us know through the chat function? Otherwise, I will proceed. I think we are okay.

We have received apologies from Senator Keogan.

Before I begin, I remind Members participating remotely to keep their devices on mute until they are invited to speak. When they are speaking, I ask where possible that they have their cameras switched on and be mindful that we are in public session.

In addition, I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the place which Parliament has chosen to sit, namely, Leinster House, in order to participate in public hearings. I will not permit a member to participate where he or she does not adhere to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate in this meeting from outside the precincts will be refused.

We will continue our deliberations. We are considering pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of a certain institutional burials (authorised interventions) Bill. I wish to inform members and witnesses present that, due to unforeseen circumstances, Ms Terri Higgins has had to send her apologies as she is unable to attend the meeting. The witnesses in attendance in the Dáil Chamber are as follows: Mr. Kevin Higgins, spokesperson for Tuam Home Survivors Network, who is joined by Mr. Peter Mulryan, chairman of Tuam Home Survivors Network; and Mr. Martin Parfrey, representing Know My Own. Witnesses appearing virtually before the committee from a location outside of the Leinster House precinct are as follows: Mr. David Dodd, BL, representing the Cork Survivors & Supporters Alliance, who is joined by Mr. Stephen Kirwan, solicitor at KOD Lyons. They are all very welcome to our meeting on the pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme. Before we commence this session, I wish to take this opportunity to thank the witnesses for taking the time to prepare their opening statements and to thank those of them who provided written submissions.

I also wish to take the opportunity to set out the purpose of today's meeting and how proceedings will be conducted in order to avoid any confusion during the meeting. While acknowledging the harrowing experiences of survivors during their time in mother and baby homes and county homes, the purpose of our meeting today is to consider the policy provisions of the proposed legislation. A discussion will take place on the provisions of the general scheme as they relate to the statutory basis and framework under which the Government may decide to authorise interventions at certain sites where manifestly inappropriate burials have taken place associated with institutions operated by or on behalf of the State, or in respect of which the State had clear regulatory or supervisory responsibilities. There are also provisions for the establishment of an agency to carry out such interventions. I remind members and witnesses that they are expected to adhere strictly to the subject matter scheduled for discussion today. I also advise witnesses that the opening statements they read into the record should be the statements they provided in advance of this meeting.

Any deviation on these matters will be addressed through the Chair.

We are all very much aware of the restrictions Covid-19 has brought to all our lives. It has also severely impacted the scheduling of public committee meetings. However, members of the committee felt it important to hear from some of those who may be impacted by or have a professional view on the provisions of the general scheme. It is the responsibility of parliamentary committees to consider and discuss topics in a balanced and fair manner. In achieving this goal it is the committee, and only the committee, which determines the witnesses it engages with and it will do so in an unhindered manner. This level of engagement will greatly assist the members of the committee in finalising our scrutiny report on the general scheme. For this reason, and while strictly adhering to Covid-19 safety requirements, four public meetings of the committee have been scheduled over the course of today. It is also expected that further public meetings will be scheduled in the near future to consider this matter further.

The committee wishes to have a productive public engagement. However, I must remind witnesses that they should not mention names of individuals and organisations, even if that information is already in the public domain nor should they make charges against anyone by name or in such a way as to make them identifiable. These are normal parliamentary procedures and exist to ensure that engagements are conducted in a constructive way.

Before I invite the witnesses to deliver their opening statements, I will read out the standard text regarding the provisions of the Defamation Act to remind them of their rights and obligations.

I want to take a minute to brief the witnesses on the work of the committee since the publication of the Report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes and the pre-legislative scrutiny by the committee to date on the general scheme under scrutiny here today. While the committee has been limited in the number of public meetings held due to Covid-19 restrictions, it has afforded priority in its consideration of the following: the scrutiny of this proposed Bill; the issues that have arisen following the publication of the Report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes; and the desire of members of the committee to ensure justice for the survivors of mother and baby homes. These matters have been discussed at eight of the nine meetings of the joint committee held this year. The committee has corresponded with the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, on five occasions in relation to various matters and has met with the Minister and his officials to discuss these issues wherever possible. The committee has prioritised these issues above the other competing demands of its vast work programme, insofar as it reasonably can. It stands ready to help to facilitate delivery of the recommendations and actions contained in the report into mother and baby homes however possible, and to undertake robust scrutiny of any and all related legislation referred, such as the general scheme under discussion here today. A public call for submissions on the general scheme opened on 22 January with a deadline of 19 February. This was later extended to 26 February. Every effort was made to ensure maximum reach and accessibility during this process. In total, the committee received 426 submissions. The committee has also had substantial standalone correspondence from the public on these issues and appreciates the engagement and effort the public have made to date on what are difficult issues.

I wish to highlight some of the support services available to anyone affected by the matters under discussion today. The HSE has a dedicated counselling service for former residents of mother and baby homes. For more information on this people can call 1800 817 517 or visit the HSE webpage. The Samaritans are available by telephone at 116123 and further supports can be found at yourmentalhealth.ie.

I am obliged to give the following advice on parliamentary privilege. For the witnesses present in the Dáil Chamber the following will apply: witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentation they make to the committee. This means witnesses have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting.

Witnesses are expected not to abuse this privilege and it is my duty as Acting Chair to ensure it is not abused. If a witness's statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, the witness will be directed to discontinue his or her remarks. It is imperative any such direction is complied with. For witnesses appearing virtually, I need to point out that there is uncertainty if parliamentary privilege will apply to evidence given from a location outside of the parliamentary precincts of Leinster House. Therefore, if a witness is directed by me to cease giving evidence on a particular matter, it is imperative that he or she complies with any such direction.

I call on the witnesses in the following order: Mr. Higgins, Mr. Parfrey and Mr. Dodd.