Mr. Martin McMahon:

On blacklisting in meat processing and construction, fear is the big word. It is not just me saying this because the Department acknowledges it and ICTU have stated this in the committee. Fear of being blacklisted is the major concern. It has happened in construction and in the case of the 16 workers I represented in the Social Welfare Appeals Office in 2016. I take the Deputy's point on whether some indicator could trigger employment status. Really and truly, as the Revenue Commissioners have stated, it does not matter whether people want to be self-employed. The only question is whether the legal criteria apply. Nothing else matters. People cannot choose not to pay tax just because they do not want to. The State is entitled to its cut. Everybody who gets paid has a contract. The payer has a contract and it is the State that is entitled, as part of the social contract, to deduct taxes and PRSI. Just because people do not want to pay tax and PRSI, they cannot use self-employment or bogus self-employment as the out. It is not as simple as a tick-box exercise, even if Revenue, the Department of Social Protection and the Social Welfare Appeals Office are using a tick-box exercise.