Mr. David O'Sullivan:

This merits a deeper discussion because it takes us into some complicated legal territory.

Even with the previous system of ad hoctribunal arbitration, companies did not regularly overturn, challenge or seek compensation for legitimate public policy decisions of governments and parliaments. There were a few notorious cases such as the Philip Morris case in which it challenged Australia's packaging on tobacco. The case was thrown out.

If one considers the history of arbitration, governments have, by and large, defended their cases well provided they can show there is no discrimination or unfair treatment and, sometimes, there has been unfair treatment. Although it is not fashionable, corporations also have rights to defend their interests if they have been unfairly treated. The proposal of either the multilateral investment court or the investor court system which is in CETA does not pose a threat to the right of governments to regulate.

There is very strong language in the CETA agreement and the chapter on investment which repeats the right of governments to legislate as they see fit in the best interest of public policy. There are very strong statements to the effect that simply the fact that companies might make less money out of the revision of a system is not a sufficient basis for making claims.

Perhaps the Chair might want to come back to this with some legal experts. What it is important, and Ireland needs to reflect on this, is that Canada is one of the greatest allies we have in the fight to put in place a more effective and transparent system of dealing with the issue of investor state dispute settlement. What we have done with Canada in the CETA agreement is a working model of how one can make this better and address the concerns the Deputy just mentioned, namely, the right of governments to regulate and to pursue the public policies which they have been elected to do, without fear the companies will sue them left, right and centre because they may have lost money.

If one believes in a reform of the investor state dispute settlement system, including the multilateral investor court, one would want to see CETA approved and implemented because it takes one in that direction and in ways which enforce the right of governments to regulate in the best interests of their own people. Canada has been a great ally of the European Union in this and we should not lose sight of that.