Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I agree with Deputy Murphy. I am not happy with the response from UL at all. Regarding the representatives from the university appearing before the committee, I want to ensure that the invitation in that regard is all-encompassing. I state that because we want to discuss a series of issues not dealt with adequately as a result of the work of the previous Committee of Public Accounts. It was even suggested that the Garda fraud squad be requested to look at this. I made such a formal request previously to the then president or chancellor of the university, or whatever position it was at the time. The answer I got was that he would take that under advisement. I certainly felt that a cursory look at the situation by the Garda was necessary, at a minimum, such was the material available to us. We will want to go over that ground and I am conscious that we have these new Standing Orders now, which are for our benefit. I want to ensure, therefore, that whatever we have to say is covered, and that the request, for example, would be something like, "Dear UL, we want to discuss everything, yours sincerely". The subject matter of the invitation is important in ensuring we can cover everything.

On protective disclosures generally, the system is totally stacked. I happily advise anyone thinking of issuing a protected disclosure to not do so in the current environment, because he or she will be thrown under the bus, penalised and subject to different treatment. Outwardly, the situation will be dressed up as being one which is open, where people are encouraged to come forward and there is a desire to improve, and all that kind of stuff. There is one proviso, however, and that is it does not make the system or the organisation look bad. That is the problem with the current situation. I refer to the idea of farming such matters out to a senior counsel, who is picked, and the terms of reference then be determined by people in-house in an organisation or in a Department or whatever. I refer to all the vested interests who do not want a negative outlook on a Department or agency or a portion of a Department or agency.

I do not know if that is work for this committee, the Joint Committee on Justice or other committees, but we must start from scratch regarding protected disclosures, protecting whistle-blowers and ensuring that what we have seen time and time again, such as in the case of Maurice McCabe, for example, who was very high profile, does not happen. All of us, as Deputies and members of this committee, have seen many examples of people who have not ended up as part of a "Prime Time Investigates" programme, but for all the world have suffered comparable discrimination and penalisation through, in effect, trying to improve their workplaces and make them fairer and better for society.