Dr. Lynn Sloman:

Deputy O'Rourke's point is about the south-east Wales road scheme that was cancelled, the extension of the M4 motorway to go to the south of Newport. That scheme had been on the books for probably 25 years.

It was perceived as a scheme to solve a congestion problem during peak hours when traffic speeds on that section of the motorway where it narrows down to two lanes and goes through some tunnels can fall to 25 mph and journeys are unreliable. The environmental cost of building another section of motorway - to dual the motorway, if one likes - was massive and the Welsh First Minister made the decision not to go ahead with the scheme. I will send the committee the final report of the South East Wales Transport Commission, of which I was a member, which examined what could be done to solve that congestion problem without building more motorway. We developed some recommendations, including increasing the number of stations, improving rail infrastructure, tackling bus governance - the lack of which is a big issue in the whole of the United Kingdom - and regulating bus services again, which is a big problem for us, in order that we could provide a comprehensive integrated network and a network of cycleways and bus priority measures. It will take time to implement that package but we were absolutely confident at the end that it would provide a better solution to congestion on that section of motorway at lower cost.

On the challenge of geographically dispersed communities, the places to look at are the rural hinterlands of cantons in Switzerland. Many areas of continental Europe do this well. Dr. Windisch has referred to Austria, Germany has some fantastic public transport networks in rural areas. The best of the best are areas such as the cantons of Zurich and Bern where rural areas have guaranteed service levels. Administrations in these areas tend to favour fixed public transport networks over demand responsive transport because people trust that and believe it will always be there for them. For this reason, it attracts more users than a demand responsive service. Those are the places that can offer lessons for rural areas in Ireland on how to provide people with an effective alternative to driving.