Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I will follow up on points made previously. We know there is exploitation going on, whether it is a majority or minority of employers. I suspect it is a minority, but I imagine for those workers to whom it is happening, it is not of massive interest whether it is happening to many other workers because it is happening to them. There are serious issues. This has been a useful meeting because it is clear the introduction of a seasonal employment permit, as described, will only serve to exacerbate the situation. We, therefore, need more enforcement, more personnel to do that enforcement and more employers to come on board, because clearly some are not. Let us be frank: the workers are not exploiting themselves.

I am interested in the views of the IBEC representatives on mechanisms that exist such as a joint labour committee, JLC. That is proposed for one of the sectors. We have highlighted four: meat processing, horticulture, agriculture and the delivery of private healthcare. Regarding those sectors and the need to improve the situation of workers in them, there is work to be done.

It would be appropriate to pause this legislation until the requisite number of inspectors have been appointed and the JLC for the care sector has been established. Is there an urgent need for this legislation to go through now in the middle of a global pandemic? With respect, this has not been addressed by any of the witnesses before the committee. It seems as if people are thinking, "Let's not waste a good crisis." The landscape of the labour market will have changed when we get to the end of this, if we ever get to the end of it. Do the witnesses share the view that now might not be the best time for this legislation given that much other work needs to be done?

Nobody at this meeting has an interest in doing anything other than protecting these workers. I know that the representatives from IBEC did not come here today to do the bidding of rogue employers. I also know that it wants the workers to be treated decently. We know they are not being treated decently and there is no point in us pretending that they are. We know they are not and we have seen the evidence. In the absence of mechanisms being in place, would it be a good idea to pause what we are doing now and put the necessary mechanisms in place for those workers to ensure their terms and conditions can be protected? I am talking about basic stuff such as using language that people can understand on the employment permit outlining where they can go to access information about their minimum rights and entitlements. Those basic things need to be done first.

Clearly, there is bigger stuff involved, including in the context of the JLC. Employers can repeatedly offend and can repeatedly abuse them. There is nothing to stop them simply moving on to the next worker when they get caught out. Many protections need to be put in place before we consider expanding a scheme like this which, I think we have established, is open to wholesale abuse. I do not suggest that the witnesses have come in here to represent the employers that abuse it. However, it would be silly to say they do not abuse it when they do. We need to have mechanisms in place to protect those workers before we push ahead.