Mr. Eddie Punch:

The first thing to say with regard to the deer is that it is a big problem and we are very concerned that the Department has adopted a bury its head in the sand approach to deer. The limited research it has shows that the positivity rate in deer is equivalent to that in cattle. Obviously, it is a problem in the cattle herd but with the same positivity rate the Department does not see deer as a problem. That is an unsustainable position and it will have to be tackled. Unless that is tackled we will not make progress.

We met Coillte a few years ago about the particular situation that pertains to deer encroaching onto farmland from their properties in Wicklow, in particular. I have to say we were disappointed that it did not seem to have the good neighbour attitude that would be expected of farmers. A company that is making in excess of €100 million in earnings not having the price of being able to fence its lands is just not acceptable.

It is important to state that we have had several strategies in a row now, which are about expansion of the national herd and the expansion of the national herd has led to significant increases in State revenues. It is not possible, therefore, to have the kind of expansion and indeed disruption of herds. Where someone sells a long-established suckler herd and then buys in a dairy herd from multiple different sources, we are going to have problems with a whole array of diseases in terms of immunity in the early stages. In particular, if we have very large herds it is clear-cut that an outbreak of TB will lead to many more reactors. All of these things explain the reason we have had an increase in reactors in the past couple of years.

On the matter of finances, we have been asking repeatedly, and we would urge Members of the Oireachtas to do this also, for a breakdown of the way the Department explains the €35 million it says it is spending on the programme. We have not got it yet. I believe the issue here is what one might call relevant costs. Yes, the Department can link a large number of staff to the TB programme and say that the cost of those staff adds up to €35 million. The real question is if there was no TB would all of that €35 million cost disappear. I do not believe it would. In other words, we would have a big question mark about the way the Department is spending the €35 million. What does that consist of and if there was no TB, would that cost disappear overnight? I think not. It is important to say that farmers are contributing that amount of money also, which is much more than the compensation they get out of it. It is important to note that farmers contribute a lot of free labour to the TB eradication programme by the amount of effort they put in to herd testing on an annual basis.

As an overall comment, there is a question mark in my head anyway about the way in which the focus needs to be on black spots - on deer and on wildlife - but we continue to spend a lot of money testing. We would be aware of members who have not had any TB reactors in 40 years but they are subject to the same cost national focus as black spots. There is a question mark about whether that money is being well allocated.

Overall, it is extraordinary to think that we could have a massive dairy expansion programme, not just expansion but a switch in enterprise, where many farms have had to sell out entire herds and buy in completely new herds to switch to dairying, and then expect that we would have no impact on TB and disease in general.

In terms of some of the questions Deputy Fitzmaurice asked, the letter was certainly a solo run. That was not agreed with the farm organisations.

With regard to the new agreement, it is agreed in the sense that we want to continue to try to find solutions to this problem. We have put in a detailed critique of much of the existing strategy but, overall, we have agreed to continue to work with the process to try to find a resolution.

Deputy Fitzmaurice is 100% right. We have repeatedly raised the issue of how it is unfair that hardship grants are not available to low income beef farmers who are forced to find income from elsewhere. That is one of the issues we want resolved in the finance committee.