John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Perhaps we could have a session on procurement at another stage because it is an interesting topic.

On the banks and the questions Deputy Tóibín has asked, again, Government thinking is stale on this and it is a continuation of the policy of the last Fine Gael Government, in my opinion. It is a protection for the pillar banks - the duopoly that is now in place. If we are really serious about post offices, it would be quite easy to give them public service obligation payments, and I think they have suggested €17 million in that regard. It is also quite easy to involve the post offices and the credit unions relative to community banking and public banking, similar to the Sparkassen model. I think the Minister was actually in that bank, as part of a committee, examining the possibilities of that bank coming to Ireland, or at least its model being supported here in Ireland. I would like to hear more about that.

When we dealt with Ulster Bank, the concern for many members was, naturally, the staff, the customer base and the question of the ownership of the various buildings that housed the branches. In Kilkenny, as well as in Carlow, similar to many other parts of the country, there are buildings that are central to the landscape of the city. We have failed to get information on that. Now, Bank of Ireland comes along and it does exactly the same thing, with 88 branches closing down.

The post offices are asking for support. The credit unions, in my opinion, are over-regulated when they could be used positively in terms of the funds they have. However, it requires a radical overhaul of Government policy in regard to banking. I have not seen a document that outlines a vision for banking in Ireland, what we see as being the banking model and how it is going to operate at community level. I would like to see that happening. KBC is fine and Permanent TSB may be a player, but it is going to require further Government funding. We have to start a conversation with the banks on the basis that they caused the problem too. They were the ones that had the reckless lending. They were the ones that pursued individuals and small businesses, and pushed them to the pin of their collar, with suicides relative to individuals and banks. We cannot ignore that. They are at fault. I am not one bit surprised that Ulster Bank pulled out of the country because NatWest made it pull out of the country. It is as simple as that. They wanted to get their hands on the grubby money they had. It is fair to hold the banks to account but it is also fair that the Government should have a published policy as to where it is going in regard to banking. That is what I would like to see. I would also like to see within, for example, AIB, where there is the EBS tied agents issue, that we get it to resolve that. We own the bank.

I am going to keep coming back to these issues because I believe the banks, by and large, have blackguarded their customers and are taking advantage of Covid by closing down branches and making big decisions that affect our economic well-being. I think the policy is just a continuation of the last Government so we should change it. I know it is a big ask but, at the same time, the public are asking us. That is the backdrop to all of this and, I am sure, the backdrop to Deputy Tóibín’s questions.