Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance) | Oireachtas source

I thank both Ministers, new and old, though I do not mean that to apply to their ages, obviously. The basic point of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight is to ensure the sustainability of the public finances, to oversee the moneys that are allocated, what we get for those moneys as they are allocated in different areas, and whether they are achieving their ends. I want to put to the Minister something obvious to which he has alluded, that is, all bets are off during the Covid-19 pandemic. Many of the normal signposts or markers for the budgetary cycle have been put off. The summer economic statement was not produced. An extra €6 billion had to appear days before the budget.

All of this is happening because of a pandemic, a virus that does not give a hoot about the budgetary cycle, fiscal rules, summer economic statements, projections or anything else. It seems to me that we are flying blind until we get this virus under control and that all of the chatter about sustainable public finances is borderline meaningless until we get it under control. I would like the Minister to respond to that point. In comparison with other countries that have the virus under control, where most of the time most people are living normal lives and they can plan, such as New Zealand, Australia, Vietnam, Taiwan and much of China, we are not doing as well. We have no idea what is coming down the line. This week, we had Ministers making statements about arbitrary dates for the reopening of sectors of the economy which seem to bear no relationship to the level of Covid infection. At the current level of 800, it is four times higher than it was when the Government made the decision to reopen sectors of the economy prior to Christmas, with disastrous effect not only in terms of infection but economically, the full ramifications of which we still do not know. I put it to both Ministers that if this happens again, maybe two or three times this year, our ability to manage the public finances and be sustainable in our approach to them will be somewhat difficult.

The budget deficit was €20 billion extra last year and is projected to be €20 billion extra this year. The debt increased by 10% last year. I ask the Minister to confirm if that €219 billion will rise by another 10% if his plans come to pass this year. Would the Minister agree that in the interest of sustainable management of the public finances, we need to get control of the virus. Will he acknowledge that trying to live alongside a virus that does not want to negotiate with us is not a very good idea and that we need to get control of it by adopting a different strategy? I am serious in saying that because this has a bearing on everything we and the Minister have to deal with for the next year. I ask the Minister to respond to that point as well. It seems to me the current plan is not working and it is costly us a great deal at every level.