Mr. Terence O'Rourke:

I might, in response to the Deputy's second question, take in some of Enterprise Ireland's experience as well because Enterprise Ireland deals with companies that come to it saying they want to spend money on going low carbon and ask whether Enterprise Ireland can help them.

To go back to the Deputy's first question about moving from 55% to 70% of electricity generation being renewables and what we can do to get it above 70%, the problem, as we get to more and more renewables, is intermittency of renewables, both onshore and offshore wind. The greatest potential is probably offshore wind at this stage. Everybody is looking at that as the main source of getting towards 100% renewable energy. Offshore wind off the west coast of Ireland is the most likely source of that, but solar and other sources will be important as well as microgeneration. The intermittency is the thing that is not being tackled yet. There are solutions in play. Battery storage is one. We are now beginning to see large-scale batteries put in place. Another part of the solution will be blue hydrogen, whereby one can use renewable energy on the very windy, busy days, producing lots of energy, and convert that into green hydrogen, which can then be used on less windy days or to flow out to deal with the intermittency. There are technological and technical issues to be solved there, but I believe my colleagues are well on top of that. As we plan not just for 70% but beyond 70%, those are the kinds of things we will look at to deal with those challenges.

I agree with the Deputy on the ESB's wider role. Getting the carbon element of ESB generation or electricity generation down to a low figure is only one part of the battle. There are issues involved in transport, heating, agriculture and other sectors, including the public sector. Electric Ireland, our supply business, provides energy supply services, works with companies and can do things such as work with them to finance a conversion to low-carbon operations and then to recoup the savings over a period. That service is already available from Energy Ireland, and I can see it being ramped up. As I said, it has been the answer to the question Enterprise Ireland has been asked by companies, that is, whether we can help them on their decarbonisation journey. As Deputy Bruton will be aware, Enterprise Ireland is given the remit that it should help Irish companies to expand jobs and exports. However, these are companies that say they will not increase jobs or exports but just want to decarbonise. That is not clearly within the remit of Enterprise Ireland, so we are now trying to figure out how we can do that. We understand the companies and want to work with them, but that will probably involve Enterprise Ireland working with companies such as the ESB and involve Enterprise Ireland working probably with the SEAI as well.

Those are things ahead of us. The ESB has had a very positive impact. It is present in every townland in Ireland. Everybody recognises the yellow vans going around the place.

I agree with the Deputy's point about wider responsibility for encouraging changes in behaviour and awareness. The smart meters he mentioned are probably a very good way of doing it. People will be offered in their own homes choices as to what kind of electricity they use, when they use it and how they use it, all in such a way as to try to make us more efficient and more effective in our use of electricity and to minimise the carbon impact of energy usage. We have a broader responsibility, which I think the board fully accepts. I am not sure we need any change in our remit because our remit is to support the economic and social development of Ireland. That is part of what the ESB was set up to do. I, therefore, do not think we need a legislative change. However, I take on board the point that it is not just the technical, operational aspect of things but the behavioural change and supporting people to help people make the change. We are committed to that and the committee will see more of that in years to come.