Niall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. Russell. It is good to see him again, even if it is just virtually on this occasion. I look forward to seeing him at our next plenary, wherever that might be.

I will make a couple of points and then I will ask a question. It is heartening and uplifting to engage with someone who is a Cabinet secretary with responsibility for constitutional affairs. My experience in this institution is that when one mentions constitutional affairs and a change in them, it gives rise to gasps and sometimes a wee bit of outrage. It is positive to hear that the Scottish experience is putting forward that.

It is also encouraging that Mr. Russell mentioned support for Scotland's return to the EU. The North has an opportunity to return to the European institutions. That is provided for in the democratically endorsed Good Friday Agreement, a route for which I am sure many in Scotland would give their right arm, but that is something we should look to and laud given the democratic endorsement for it in this State.

In terms of preparing and planning for constitutional change, will Mr. Russell give us his view on how important he believes that to be in terms of properly planning, informing, engaging and having dialogue on any constitutional change? Some of it is very sensible in the course of the Brexit dialogue and the trauma that has been inflicted on both Scotland and the North of Ireland, both of which voted to remain in the EU. I say that within the context of the Scottish experience, which is not entirely separate from its campaign for independence, and in terms of the work of this committee, and understanding the importance of preparing and planning for future constitutional change within the context of providing against the shock, negativity and harm caused to us both by an unwanted Brexit

Anything I say is clearly within the context of Scottish constitutional politics. I would not dare to assume that I would come into constitutional politics elsewhere. All constitutional politics are different. I have been the cabinet secretary with responsibility for the constitution over a period of time. Indeed, ten years ago I had responsibility for the constitution of the Scottish Government. That remains a constant. As we have been debating the constitution in Scotland for well over 100 years, this is not a particular shock to us. There was an old joke in the 1970s, when devolution was first fully on the agenda, that the only difference between devolution and evolution was that devolution took longer. In Scotland, we are quite used to spending time considering these matters.

We fully understand the need for the arrangements that have been made for Northern Ireland and absolutely support them. However, it makes us reflect upon a truism, which is that Northern Ireland did not vote for Brexit and has been treated in a special way. Wales voted, regrettably and narrowly, for Brexit and has had Brexit. England voted for Brexit and has had Brexit. Scotland is the only country that voted for something and has had nothing. Scotland did not vote for Brexit and yet is being forced into that situation. That was not necessary. It was perfectly possible to envisage a different way forward. We published a series of papers, starting in December 2016, called Scotland's Place in Europe and put forward a range of options and compromises, which fell on deaf ears. The process of Brexit is one in which there has been a steady rightward movement of the UK Government and that Government has been less and less willing to compromise or to listen to any other voices. The tragedy of Brexit is that if there had been a discussion about everybody getting something in 2016, we would not be in the extraordinary, damaging and chaotic mess in which we now find ourselves.

All I can say on the wider constitutional issue is that Scotland is quite clear that we need to move on. It is clear even to those who do not support independence that the situation needs to be resolved. Any means of doing so has to be an inclusive process. We learned a great deal from the Citizens' Assembly experience in Ireland. Indeed, I visited Ireland to look specifically at that some time ago and went back to Scotland with it. I had responsibility for all constitutional affairs, including that, and we established a Scottish citizens' assembly which is just coming to the end of its initial deliberations, despite the pandemic. It has been a difficult experience for it. We believe in inclusion and that this has to be an inclusive process and we are trying to achieve that. The referendum we had on independence in 2014 was a very positive thing. Some disagree and we learned from that. It was a very positive and energising thing and I want the current process to be the same. Regrettably, we live in a time of polarised politics. Finding a way to avoid that polarisation is very important to us and ensuring that citizens are engaged and informed is a big part of that.