Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I have had difficulty with my remote log-in but I have been reading the presentation and following the debate with interest. As everyone has said, it is unacceptable that Ulster Bank has again declined to meet the committee today.

It is clear that many of these processes cut across the Central Bank's duties in the context of consumer protection and, as a result, it is extremely disappointing - and a real problem - that its representatives are not here to answer questions.

The importance of Ulster Bank's 3,000 staff and 1 million customers has been mentioned. Reference was also made to its loan book, worth approximately €20 billion, and the fact that 25% of SMEs here are involved with the bank. This is clearly a matter of national interest. As has been articulated, in terms of different banks and different ways of operating, the main banks have been accorded considerable political and policy engagement, be it in the context of slightly different measures for AIB and others. We saw that even this summer when we passed yet another credit guarantee in terms of the State underwriting small loans for banks. It is also apparent in our policies, which I personally do not support, on deferred assets and the fact that, effectively, many banks are not even paying taxation because of their previous losses. The banks clearly believe that these issues are our business when it suits them.

I agree that it is not credible that this is an open-ended review. I do not know of any consultancy agency, whether it is Goldman Sachs or whatever, which signs up to an open-ended general review. There is a timeline. There are terms of reference. One of the key asks from the Minister and, I suggest, from this committee and other interested parties should be that there be some engagement and clarity regarding the timeline and the terms of reference. I am not referring to commercially sensitive financial matters. What is already in the public domain about the finances tells us that they are very healthy. I understand that dividends of €3.5 billion have been paid by Ulster Bank in recent years. I note- Mr. O’Connell might want to elaborate on it - the comment to the effect that, separate from the dividend, Ulster Bank pays for things like sponsorship of local teams in the UK. There is a good deal of direct cash transfer between Ulster Bank and its parent company, NatWest, even aside from dividends. It is important that the terms of reference address those issues of national duty of care and responsibility, workers' security, consumer protection and local impact. We have seen, at least in the case of AIB, that it is giving us a sense that those are the issues it is examining and this is the way that it is examining them. That then gives a basis for appropriate engagement.

I was very interested in Mr. O'Connell's comments on the importance of branch services, although it may be a slightly wider discussion. While Covid-19 has moved people online in some cases, it has also been important, given the restrictions in terms of county boundaries and so forth, for people to have local branches for important banking provisions and actions. That has been shown to be the case for many people in the Covid-19 crisis.

I concur with Mr. O’Connell's assertion that digitisation is not simply a matter for the companies. It is a matter for the customers also. More than 50% of people in Ireland lack basic digital skills, according to EU sources. The facts and figures are that Ireland is not at a point of digital literacy.

Those are important points but the key issue, and it was picked up by Deputy Barry, is the two months notice. In terms of what it means, it clearly points to a flaw in the Central Bank’s 2012 consumer protections. Mr. O’Connell might point out how that should be addressed and what he believes should replace that two months notice in terms of customers and consumer protection but also what it means for workers? What would a two-month notification mean for workers and, to use the example of a temporary closure with one day's notice, the impact of that on financial services workers? That is very important.

A huge number of homeowners have their mortgages with Ulster Bank and 25% of SMEs have their business with it. Mr. O’Connell mentioned performing loans. We are having a separate but related debate here on the question of securitisation and the way non-performing loans are categorised. What are Mr. O’Connell’s thoughts or concerns about the potential dangers in terms of securitisation if a large number of loans are being categorised as non-performing? What would be the implications for people of the exit of Ulster Bank from the market here?

Mr. O’Connell specifically mentioned the duopoly. Again, this is not about one bank or the other, but what are the known risks in having such narrowed competition in terms of a duopoly? What should we be looking for in terms of having a diverse or healthy financial eco-system?