Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

We are very clearly saying we do not see how it assists. I think the authors have said so as well because the Senator has tried to get them to say so, from what I could see from reading the transcripts. They did not say that their report was applicable to the Debenhams situation. Their report was about companies in deficit situations. They have indeed referred to some cases where that looks to have happened with assets but they are not saying their report would serve a purpose in the Debenhams situation or would aid the employees there. They are not saying that, that I can see. We looked at this and do not believe it would have helped them either. The Taoiseach, Tánaiste and many others have engaged with the unions and Mandate trying to help with negotiations and put in place a process. The Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, was the most recent one. It has not borne fruit yet. Again, the Taoiseach has said he wants more engagement around that. However, this is a private agreement. The State will honour, and has honoured, the statutory agreements by paying out. There are other agreements there that are private agreements that the State does not get involved in, and has not in the case of many other companies.

The Senator referenced the potential for 1,000 liquidations. I think there were potentially 8,000 already this year and there are thousands every year for different scenarios as well. The State does not and has not in the past got involved in private agreements. It will always get involved in honouring the statutory responsibilities of all employees - and rightly so. That is what we are committed to doing and we are going forward with this to see if we can strengthen the legislation or make it more effective. It is not yet proven that we can. It is very clear that what is there is not being used. What I really want to understand is why. That does not mean that any of that can aid the Debenhams workers because they are very different situations. The Duffy Cahill report references companies in relation to assets, the moving of assets and things like that. There is no evidence of that that I have seen or that anyone has brought to my attention where Debenhams is concerned. It would be very useful if there were assets there because then the employees would get greater payments. People are saying that there are assets but that is opinion.