Lisa Chambers (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Ms O'Connell, Dr. Coutts and Professor Laffan for their presentations. The idea of a conference on the future of Europe is very good. I like the idea that we would be engaging more directly with citizens to get their views on how they want their Europe to work and what should take place. The Brexit situation has had a twofold impact on Ireland. It has, in some ways, made us appreciate the European Union more and being a part of the bigger bloc because of the support we have received. I think Professor Laffan spoke about a small country getting its issue to the fore and keeping it there. Citizens in Ireland have heard a lot more about the European Union in the past three years than they would have done previously because it has been in the national media consistently, almost every week, before Brexit has dominated. Before Covid-19, Brexit was the key issue and it is still teetering away. That has made citizens here more aware of the EU. They appreciate the fact that we are a part of a bigger family and the supports that come from that.

It has also made us look at some of the shortcomings of Europe. I am sure other member states feel the same. Ultimately, a very large member state has left and many of its people voted to leave. They did so for varying reasons but they obviously felt that their interests were not being properly served by the European Union and did not want to be a part of it anymore. There is a question for every member state. We must ask why that happened and what we need to address. We must have an introspective look at the European Union and what we need to do better. This conference is, therefore, very timely.

It is good for Ireland that we are more connected to Europe because of the Brexit process. My concern is that trying to engage with citizens in every member state across the board is a mammoth task. How will that be done? How is the information that is collected then collated and distilled? Ms O'Connell spoke about her future of Europe project and pointed out the difficulty of ensuring it is not just a two-hour engagement but has an outcome and product at the end of it. I am concerned about the practicalities of running this conference in a meaningful way. How will it even be run? What will it look like in Ireland? It cannot be just any one thing. It is not just going to be a series of Zoom calls or town hall meetings because if we want to reach out to everybody, we are going to have to use several mechanisms to do so. After that engagement, how do we collate the information and send it up the line at an EU level to ensure that Ireland's views are represented in the overall outcome of this? I would welcome our guests' practical ideas as to how this conference might look in Ireland. What shape will it take? There is a risk that the conference might be a little too high level. I do not mean that in a disparaging way.

I thank Ms O'Connell for her document because I love how she has set out, in bullet points, the priority areas for each of the three institutions. I have a page on which I have written what I think citizens in Ireland associate with the European Union. The first is the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, budget because farmers are very interested in CAP. I think that even those citizens who are not involved in farming associate the EU with farming and agriculture. It has become synonymous with how we do our business here in terms of funding the production of food and the agricultural sector.

Citizens will also think of defence policy, and maybe not in a very positive way, but it comes to mind. Dr. Coutts outlined why treaty change, while we do not want to rule it out, can be difficult because something like defence policy tends to pop up and no matter what is being discussed, it is interpreted as referring to an EU army. Citizens associate European treaties with discussions on defence. The other topic is migration. The committee has recently been discussing the new pact on migration. Citizens here would think of that issue at a European level.

Citizens here also look at climate and environmental policy as coming generally through directives from EU level. Those are the big issues that Irish citizens would associate with the European Union. Perhaps they also associate taxation with the Union, to a lesser extent. We have been hearing a little bit about that, perhaps as a result of the Apple tax case and a push at EU level for us to change how we organise our tax system. Those are the topics that will likely occur to Irish citizens.

There seem to be predefined topics for the conference. The Commission, the Council and the Parliament have identified their priority areas but have done so in isolation from citizens. We are coming to citizens with predefined topics that they want to discuss. One can see straight away that the Parliament is more connected to the grass roots and citizens because it has mentioned taxation, the environment and security. It has identified those as topics likely to pop up in member states. The bullet points that Ms O'Connell has prepared for the Council and the Commission's priorities include things such as an economy that works for people. What does that even mean? It means different things to different people. It is very high level. If we start a conference on these hifalutin, broad, sweeping topics, people will zone out. They will not know what something means or how to input into a conversation about it.

If we have a clear engagement at an EU level on climate policy, the EU CAP budget or how we fund our food production - something more defined - then we might find the engagement to be more meaningful. It may reach beyond what Professor Laffan referred to as the EU nerds who talk about the different treaties and articles. That would have a value for the ordinary citizen. I agree they do not care because it does not affect them in their daily lives.

I apologise if I have rambled on. There are two issues I am discussing. In a practical way, how do we run this conference in Ireland? What does it look like? How do we ensure people believe their input will be passed up the line and become part of the overall output of this conference? How do we identify topics that will interest people? How do we ensure this is not a high-level broad academic discussion on Europe's place in the world and that kind of thing? We need to bring it back down to how the EU affects people and decide the topics we are going to discuss. We should be happy to discuss difficult topics rather than avoiding them.