James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am conscious there is a potential money saving there but it is probably a very specific issue, in one sense. Before we leave that heading, Deputy Daly referred to the electronic connection of courthouses. It is worth noting the Civil Law and Criminal Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, passed by the Houses in July, which enables a lot of that electronic interaction between courthouses, prisons and other venues. I believe that has been relatively successful and has been adopted by courts around the country. It was an efficient and pragmatic thing to do at the time and has helped to move things along.

We move to Vote 22 - Courts Service. For the information of the committee, the Minister and the wider world, it is the intention that our work programme will have a wider consideration on the Courts Service and courts system, including courthouses, capacity, modernisation and so on, at a later date. While there is not scope for it today, it is something we will be returning to and we might seek the views of the Minister down the line.

I have two questions. Under either subhead A.1 or A.2, on the legal aid provisions within the Courts Service, it has been the case for some time that the number of practitioners in the criminal sphere is in decline, and legal aid rates have effectively been frozen since 2010 or perhaps even before that. It is leading to impediments in regard to access to justice that the number of practitioners is declining, and this is happening for financial reasons. It is something the chair of the Bar Council has raised, and the Law Society may have raised it as well. It impacts on clients, accused persons and defendants of any kind. Where does this sit within the Estimates and is there any provision for that to be revised or reconsidered down the line?

My second question is on the general management of the Courts Service, including during the pandemic. It has its challenges, like any other part of society, and these have been admirably met in many cases. However, I note the comments of Maura McNally, SC, the chair of the Bar Council, who only yesterday commented on the fact the courthouses in the Dublin district have effectively gone into abeyance to an extent and prefer remote hearings, whereas venues on circuit continue to have hearings.

The question of access to justice - whether litigants can get their case heard or get their day in court, be it for vindication or to pursue whatever they need to pursue - is a concern within the Courts Service. Why is it that Dublin venues seem to be progressing? I appreciate that the Minister may not be in a position to answer right away but it is a concern that reflects the wider work. On the legal aid side, that might come under A1 or A2. Perhaps the Minister is in a position to answer that.