Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

For the Minister's information and in the context of his rebuttal of what I said with regard to the ESRI - and Ministers are entitled to form their own views - he should note that the institute spoke against the carbon tax. It stated that it would be regressive and would hit rural families, lone parents and poorer households the most. It argued for a different scheme, indeed, one close to what the Green Party put forward. Perhaps the Minister's clutching at the carbon tax and the ESRI might not have been the best example he could use, because it is one that has been used to show that the Minister's proposal is flawed.

I will return to the core of what we are discussing. Perhaps the Minister could answer the question about what is affordable in Dublin, the capital city, because it relates to that core issue. This is an important question and one which I am sure the Minister will not answer, just as none of his Cabinet colleagues will answer it. The reality is that they are only too happy to allow public land to be sold to provide housing that is not affordable, but they will not nail their colours to the mast. What does the Minister believe is affordable? What is a reasonable price for a three-bedroom house in Dublin? We talk about affordable housing schemes and so forth, but does the Minister have a figure? Perhaps he will surprise us and give a figure. The figures for affordable housing are available, regardless of the level of people's incomes and all the rest of it.

The Minister also made the point that the majority of people need this scheme in order to get deposits. That is not the case. The Minister might be misinterpreting the figures, which are the figures he provided from the Revenue Commissioners to Deputy Ó Broin in reply to a parliamentary question. When we say that 40% of individuals did not need this for the deposit, that means 40% had a loan-to-value ratio of less than 85%. Some 3,000 of these individuals had a loan-to-value as low as between 70% to just under 75%. The number of people who had a loan-to-value of 90%, which is the figure one needs under the Central Bank's rules, was 35%. It is not the case that the majority of them needed this. Only 35% of those who availed of the help-to-buy scheme needed all the support required to enable them to get the mortgage. The other 65%, to one degree or another, did not need the full payment and we know for a fact that at least 40% needed none of it. They are the figures. It is not a majority.

The Minister talks of dead weight in schemes and of course that is there but this is different. The core issue is there is a lack of supply and the Government is throwing money at it. We were in the Seanad Chamber for the earlier part of the meeting and myself and the Minister were Members of that House during the crash. We heard many times about the need to withdraw the punchbowl and all the rest and how what the then Government did was like throwing petrol on the fire and so and so forth. All the Minister is doing here is creating demand for houses that are above the median price and demand where a large proportion of purchasers - at least 40% - need no support whatsoever and the majority do not need all of the support being provided. Despite this the Minister feels this is the best way to use this money. Every single figure we are given is under the old 5% and €20,000 scheme. What the Minister is deciding to do is to ramp it up to 10% and €30,000. It does not make sense any way one looks at it or dices it. The Minister may disagree but the reality is the PBO and the ESRI have said this will push up house prices. The problem is that I do not think that is a problem for the Minister. He is okay with that. Fine Gael are okay with that. The Minister's predecessor, Mr. Michael Noonan, used to talk about needing to get a floor and how he wanted the vultures in to get a floor on property prices. This is Fine Gael's way. The Minister does not like me saying that but he keeps on showing me over and over again that this is the Fine Gael way and that this is what it is about. Otherwise, the Government would not be using this type of money to do something, as independent agencies have said, that pushes up house prices. Daft.iehave shown that house prices have increased in the third quarter by 2.7%. In the past three months it has gone up 5%. Other people have said since the Government announced its enhanced help-to-buy scheme, it would push up property prices because the demand has increased at a time of the weakest supply we have had in more than 14 years.