Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 12 November 2020

Public Accounts Committee

2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 – Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 4 – Control over Welfare Payments

11:30 am

Photo of Brian StanleyBrian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

We are joined remotely by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. McCarthy, the permanent witness to the committee. No apologies have been received. I remind all those in attendance to ensure that their mobile phones are either in silent mode or switched off.

We will now engage with officials from the Department of Social Protection. There are a number of matters for examination from the Comptroller and Auditor General's appropriation accounts 2019, Vote 37 – Employment Affairs and Social Protection, and the Comptroller and Auditor General's Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2019, chapter 4 - control over welfare payments.

To assist us in our examination of the matters before us, and with regard to public health guidelines, we are joined in person by Mr. John McKeon, Secretary General, Mr. Tim Duggan, acting deputy secretary, and Mr. Ciarán Lawler, assistant secretary. We are also joined remotely by Mr. John Conlon, assistant secretary, and by representatives from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, who work in the Department of Social Protection Vote section, namely, Mr. David Moloney, assistant secretary and Ms. Jenny Connors, assistant principal. They are all very welcome to the meeting. I thank the staff of the Department of Social Protection for the comprehensive briefing material which they provided for members of the committee.

Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentation they make to the committee. This means that they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, witnesses are expected not to abuse this privilege and it is my duty as Chair to ensure that this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if witnesses' statements are potentially defamatory regarding an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that witnesses comply with any such direction. While we expect witnesses to answer questions asked by the committee clearly and frankly, witnesses can and should expect to be treated fairly and with respect and consideration at all times, in accordance with the witness protocol.

Members are reminded of the provisions within Standing Order 218 that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government or the merits of the objectives of such policies. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I ask that members and witnesses remove their masks when speaking to ensure they can be heard, and that when members are leaving and taking their seats, they sanitise the area.

The Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, is a little delayed so I call on Mr. John McKeon to make his opening statement.

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