Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. Duffy and Ms Cahill for their presentation. What needs to be proven in the courts to establish that a company has engaged in transactions that have fraudulently deprived workers or, presumably, other creditors? What needs to be proved regarding the assets that were transferred or the transaction and what needs to be proved in terms of the fraud involved?

In respect of the points Mr. Duffy made, when he said the penalty increased from 4 weeks to 104 weeks for a company failing to consult, is there an issue that this might create an incentive for companies that were on the edge to effectively refuse to consult because it would then create a situation where the State, not the company involved in the various questionable transactions, etc., would be on the hook? Presumably, the same applies where a collective agreement is negotiated in a very different atmosphere from the insolvency and suddenly the company has a way of shifting its obligations onto the State. Did Mr. Duffy and Ms Cahill consider that aspect of the matter and how the State would be protected against companies that sought to aggressively shift their obligations to the taxpayer?