Professor John FitzGerald:

Just transition and climate justice are similar concepts. There is a range of different issues that come up. Mention of just transition should be considered though I am less concerned about the precise wording, although perhaps I should be more concerned because it is in legislation.

On the Senator's reference to the box-ticking exercise, my concern extends beyond just that. It is an advisory council so it is different from a regulator but having been on two regulatory bodies, I know that all of the evidence and criteria set down in legislation have to be considered. The council must also be able to show that those criteria have been considered or it will be judicially reviewed. When I was on the Northern Ireland Authority for Energy Regulation, one had to hear all the evidence before one made one's decision. When one is dealing with people who are part-time, giving a day or two to a council, setting in legislation that all of those issues must be considered becomes problematic. The council will just be ticking boxes on all of those issues. There are certain issues that are important, the first of which is getting to net zero emissions. The second is doing it in a way that is acceptable to society in terms of its cost. We then need to make sure that people are not left behind or particularly badly affected by it. Those are important criteria. Once one goes beyond that, it becomes a tick-box effort which has to be considered before we can make any recommendations. That is problematic and I see a difficulty there.

On the Senator's point about expertise, we have a health expert on the adaptation committee. We could not operate without a range of expertise, including engineering and so on, when it comes to adaptation. The adaptation committee has a range of expertise. The legislation specifies the number of people on the council. If one decides to have an expert in all of these areas, I am not sure that will work as a council. One wants a broad range of expertise and, as I set out, one needs a council that will actually work. I have been particularly fortunate with my colleagues and we have worked well together, although we have not always agreed. It is important to have diverse views or approaches on the council, rather than a single viewpoint. We should be looking for a breadth of representation across gender and expertise, people who will have different views but will come together to make a cohesive recommendation. That is important for a council.