Professor John FitzGerald:

Speaking to a previous committee two and a half years ago I expressed frustration about the fact that we could not get access to the modelling data. Our relations with the Department were not great. Things have changed in the past 18 months and there is a willingness to give us access. My frustration arose because I was doing the same kind of work at the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI. I understand it. Modelling is my first love. Institutions need to work together. When I was at the ESRI I participated in a very good group with departmental staff involved in this work between 2010 and 2012. This work should be restarted. That is the importance of the memorandum of understanding. This is what the equivalent body in the UK has done. It has had similar difficulties with bringing everybody together.

We are a small country and the expertise at our disposal is limited. Making best use of it is important. We may need ten or more experts on the Climate Change Advisory Council. We draw up the carbon budget and it then goes to the Department. The Department then has to hire ten similar people to understand the budget. I recommend using a common team to do the research and then allowing the council to form its opinion. We understand the research. The Department knows where in the research the bodies are buried and can intervene if the Minister wants a different approach. It can do this from a position of understanding the research. If a body has not been part of the research it is difficult to get involved in it, even if it is well-documented.

I have seen a model of this approach between the ESRI, the Department of Finance and the Central Bank over 25 or 30 years. Modelling was carried out jointly by the Department of Finance and the ESRI. That is still the practice. The Department of Finance uses the ESRI's model in preparing the budget. This kind of model has worked in other areas. Models in the climate science area do talk to each other. There is a possible win-win outcome here. It is really important that the Department is involved. I carried out a series of studies on investment priorities for the Department of Finance over 25 years. After the first 20 years I recommended that the Department deploy somebody to work with us on the project full-time so that the Department would understand our recommendations. It might not accept them, but it would understand the science behind our conclusions.

Working together will make better use of expertise that is scarce in Ireland and will help in policy-making. The Department was concerned that it would infringe on our independence. I am quite capable of telling the Department or the Government that I disagree with them, as is the council. Doing the research jointly would not infringe on our independence. Forming our conclusions is where we must be independent, and we are.