Professor John FitzGerald:

On the objective for Ireland set out in the legislation, we are conscious that in respect of the IPCC's recommendations, as mediated through the EU, the legislation, ultimately, determines the EU's position. While Ireland failed to meet its 2020 target, the EU as a whole will meet its 2020 target. It seems that we have not yet considered it, but if the draft EU legislation proposed last month is implemented, it will provide a strong certainty that the EU as a whole will meet its 2030 target and its 2050 target because the mechanisms the EU is designing to do so will deliver with a high probability of success. As for the science determining what the objectives should be for 2030, that is for the Oireachtas to determine if the Government wants to increase its ambition. Deputy Bruton pointed out that we do not know what it will cost society - "cost" in a broad sense - and society will have to consider that target. There is no correct answer in looking forward, or if there is, we do not know what it is.

On cost effectiveness, I have forgotten the precise formulation in the current Act under which we are operating but it was clear. If we did not consider cost, we could outline any scheme, which might cost €300 per tonne. In seeking to change agriculture, we do not consider the cost to the agricultural community. I do not think it makes sense to come up with policies that do not take account of the constraints of the cost of their implementation. It is worth remembering that cost incorporates the just transition, that is, the cost to individuals in society as well as to society as a whole. Economists talk about welfare effects, which are not necessarily the direct effects. They include indirect effects on individuals.

I have mentioned the issue of Government policy. My reading of where the Bill states that we must take into account Government policy was that we were to take account of the targets for 2030 and 2050 as defined in the legislation. It may be that more than that is intended.

I hope my response was not too meandering.