Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I might confine my comments to Vote 35. If there is more time, I might come back to Vote 36. I thank the Minister and his team for appearing before us. It was great to hear the news about the potential Baldonnel hospital, the terms of reference and the commission on defence possibly being sorted by next month. They are very positive. Regarding Vote 35, the defence sector is the only sector where there is a separate Vote for pensions. The pensions of teachers and members of the Garda are internalised in their operational Vote - their operational budget - but due to a historical anomaly, there are two separate Votes when it comes to the defence Vote. It is very useful because it allows us to examine in detail the Army pension situation. A number that really jumps off the page is the figure of 12,750 military pensioners. We now have 50% more people on a military pension than we do serving in the military. That is staggering. If we compare it to the numbers in An Garda Síochána, we will see that the ratio is in the opposite direction with far more people serving than receiving pensions.

I see where the Minister is coming from when he said that he was pleased to inform the committee that the gross allocation of Army pensions increased by €10 million to some €259 million for 2020. That is completely correct. Everyone wants more money but when I see an additional €10 million being required for pensions, I am not happy. I am devastated. I would much prefer that €10 million to be given in salaries and keeping people in service because many of those people do not want to retire. They have retired because they have been forced to retire so I accept the Minister's point completely and agree with him that it is good to see an increase but I would much prefer it to be going into salaries and keeping people in service rather than into pensions, which, to me, is a problem.

My next point is a technical one that is probably more for the Minister's team than the Minister. I am comparing the figures for Vote 35 with the ones we got on budget day in page 75 of a booklet I have. It says that Army pensions are €262 million. We see here now that the figure is €259 million so I am not sure which figure is accurate. Page 75 of the booklet states that pension provisions increased by €3.5 million whereas we are told today that they have increased by €10 million, so there is a discrepancy with regard to budget day figures and the figures in the opening statement.