Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 22 October 2020

Public Accounts Committee

2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Accounting for Capital Assets
Chapter 5 - Accounting for Allied Services

11:30 am

Mr. Robert Watt:

The overall Vote is within 1% of the quantum of spending. In effect, we are spending 101% of what we budgeted for. I know €600 million is a large number, but in the overall scheme of things, it is not that big. I do not want to be misrepresented in what I said, but in terms of the size of the State, it is 1% of the overall outlay. It is inevitable that every year there are going to be underspends and overspends.

Following on from the discussion with Deputy Murphy, one extreme example of that are pensions. In the health system there is a demand for medical cards, a variety of service providers, the acute system, managing patients and the costs associated with all of that. Then there are other areas of spending. There are obviously decisions in regard to social welfare, which is a separate category. It is not demand-led; it is a conscious decision, which leads to higher spending. There are pension costs in respect of education.

In effect, the Vote teams in our Department monitor spending with their colleagues throughout the year. This is an exceptional year, but normally after the budget we would consider what Departments may need Supplementary Estimates. Many Departments require savings and Votes. There is some virement allowed between subheads on votes, but if the virement gets to a certain scale, that cannot be done and a Supplementary Estimate is required.

Sometimes we have a Supplementary Estimate on a subhead within a Vote. The overall Vote might be an underspend but we need a Supplementary Estimate. The gross and net figure is different. The gross Supplementary Estimates could be greater than the net increase in spending over the year.

The process involves colleagues in our Department talking to the relevant Votes and discussions on whether they are needed. The Minister, Deputy McGrath, will bring a memorandum to Government seeking its approval for Supplementary Estimates. They come to the Dáil and they are voted on in December. The appropriations Bill is presented and, it is to be hoped, enacted. That is, in effect, the process. There are a lot of discussions and moving parts, but that is what happens.

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