Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 18 December 2019

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action

Supporting a Just Transition: Discussion (Resumed)

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance) | Oireachtas source

The ESB is excluded from the part that states the just transition commissioner cannot have an industrial relations role whereas Bord na Móna is explicitly included. I believe the reason is that Bord na Móna management had an input in framing these terms of reference. It was obvious when we had the discussion with its representatives when they came before the committee that they did not want anything to do with the Workplace Relations Commission and they did not want Mr. Mulvey to have anything to do with a just transition in respect of internal industrial relations issues. This comes down to the definition of a just transition. Upskilling, replacing the jobs, greening the community and all the rest of it are important, and one will see that in the ILO definition. However, the way workers are treated when they are losing their jobs matters also. That was very much a feature of what happened in the Spanish coal industry where more than €150 million was provided for the workers in a similar size workforce.

I say all of that because I honestly believe that what is going on with the Bord na Móna workers will sow the seeds of bitterness and discord among the workers and their families for a long time unless it is addressed. In an email I got from a relatively young employee of Bord na Móna he stated that he had to look hard at his options for the past 12 months and decided there was a real opportunity to be part of the change that the company and the country need. He is very positive about that. He further stated that he firmly believes now that the understanding of the Government of the word "just" in just transition is closer to the sports brand Nike slogan than it is to the word "justice" enshrined in our Constitution since the foundation of the State. There is no justice in a just transition as we know it. That is the direct experience of the workers. This is not one of the workers we described earlier who has ten years left and might want to work out his time. This is a relatively young worker starting out whose opportunities may be enhanced because of his age. As Mr. Mulvey can hear from the tone of the email, he is already embittered by the attitude to just transition. If Mr. Mulvey, as a just transition commissioner, is excluded from that discussion and has no role to play in what happens to workers in terms of the actual experience of losing their jobs rather than their experience of upskilling and so on, I believe we have a problem. That is an important point.

Mr. Mulvey stated he is not bound by the terms of reference and that he believes they could be broadened. I hope he could play a role in that regard because it could not have been clearer that the Bord na Móna management was hostile to the idea of going to the WRC. It was equally clear from the ICTU representatives that there was no other way around dealing with issues such as redundancies, pensions, etc. I hope I have made myself clear on that. Mr. Mulvey might speak to it.

From the point of view of the workers, it also important to raise the issue of pensions. There are two defined benefit pension schemes in Bord na Móna. One is already in deficit and the other is barely above water, so to speak. Is there anything Mr. Mulvey can do to ensure that the pensions of all Bord na Móna workers and retired workers are secure as the pressure comes on workers to leave the company and for peat production to cease? This process has been pushed forward very quickly. It should have happened more slowly.

In that regard, Mr. Mulvey stated in his briefing document that he had a long briefing session with the chief executive of Bord na Móna and senior management. Will he expand on the nature of that engagement? Did it include job creation, upskilling, pensions, redundancies, etc.? I imagine it did not but I would like to hear Mr. Mulvey's response.

I have a note indicating that workers feel very strongly about the current level of training. That is an issue that is within Mr. Mulvey's remit. They say training is basic, ad hoc, inadequate for their needs and appears to be nothing more than a box-ticking exercise. Mr. Mulvey will find it reasonable for workers to want to have a just transition into jobs that are not precarious or minimum wage and that instead have some degree of permanency. They have had all of the benefits of being in a permanent, pensionable, good job for long periods but it appears now that they will be pushed into precarious, low paid and temporary employment. I seem to have mislaid my note detailing a case I raised with the head of Bord na Móna when he was here.

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