Mr. Kieran Mulvey:

What I do not want to do in the whole of this process is end up doing what I did in my last job, namely, negotiating the resolution of disputes between unions and management. If I do that, I will have no time left to do the bigger job. That is why I am being cautious on this. The second thing is that the ESB has always prided itself on, and has been very strong on, the independence of its own industrial tribunal. The commission used to supply the chair of that over the years but I know, because I wear the scars on my back, how independent both the ESB workers and management are about their own processes and non-third-party interference.

It has not been similarly the case with Bord na Móna. Over the years, Bord na Móna did not enjoy the best industrial relations. There were different disputes and issues over the years, such as issues over the closure of plants, seasonal working, harvesting and the whole lot. While I am aware of all of this, there are processes and procedures to resolve these. The Irish Congress of Trade Union has made the point that it perceives, believes or has actually experienced - I do not know which and I am not going to make a judgment on it - a resistance from the management in Bord na Móna to get back down into this kind of negotiation. There is an advisory service at the Labour Relations Commission which was established to create harmony where it does not exist, particularly after bad industrial dispute situations. It is a mechanism by which an officer of the commission can sit with the parties and resolve the issues.

In fairness to the regional group I met recently, and I made this point earlier in my presentation, we sometimes need to separate fact from fiction. This is where I believe the one-to-ones are important in the context of Bord na Móna. There is no point forcing a worker who does not want to do something, and would prefer to retire or take a package, into reskilling as a retrofitter if that is not what the worker wants to do. That exercise is ongoing to find out what is the desire of workers and what they want, and that is going to be an important part of the exercise.

I am very conscious, and it is one of the concerns of the unions, that when alternative employment is set up, particularly by Bord na Móna, it has not reduced or diminished terms or conditions of employment. That is understandable.

In regard to other industries that might be established, or people going into other industries, we will have to decide on this. From what I know from the IDA and Enterprise Ireland, they are not exactly queuing up to establish industries in the midlands. We are going to have to incentivise this in some way around the regional funding that happened in the countries the Senator mentioned in order to say, "This is where we want you to go and this is what we are prepared to provide and to supply you with." When I talk about call centres, I am not necessarily talking about call centres per se. There are distribution warehouses and there are other areas where goods are coming in. An Post on Black Friday had 1 million parcels going through the system. There are other areas where we could have distribution for what is a changing economy. The important thing is quality, sustainable jobs to keep the community in the community.