Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

There is a delicate nuance here about what is operational in the normal day-to-day and what is actually strategic and major. From our perspective, looking in as a committee, and from some of our earlier discussions, this is not a normal matter. There is a question of what are industrial relations in the normal sense and what is just transition. It is not simply whether Mr. Mulvey values unions, since I have no doubt he does, and it is in his remit to discuss with unions. What matters are discussed will be important because when there is change on this scale, there is a question of what issues become industrial relations or not. When ICTU spoke to us, it was specifically about some of the concerns, with deunionisation being mentioned. There was an issue of moving to redeployment versus voluntary redundancy, for example. There is the issue of those being redeployed, or voluntary redundancy and who is able to access it. Where there is change on a major scale, those industrial relations issues can become just transition issues.

I want to look at two specific aspects of Mr. Mulvey's mandate. It states that he does not have a direct role in industrial relations matters in Bord na Móna, though it interestingly does not rule him out from them in the ESB. Perhaps he might have a more hands-on role with ESB. It states that he can recommend optimal structures or processes for the co-ordinated and effective delivery of just transition in the midlands. I know Mr. Mulvey mentioned established bodies. I presume he is referring to the regional transition team. He has the remit to suggest other processes. A process that was specifically put forward here and recommended by ICTU and others was the involvement of the Workplace Relations Commission, not in a role of resolving disputes, but chairing an examination of work and industrial relations issues in the broadest sense and workers' rights issues in the context of just transition. Under the Silesia declaration, the Government and many other Governments have committed to participatory and representative processes of social dialogue as one of the principles for any just transition and work in this area. That is not simply a question of whether workers have good ideas and if they can give us some good input. It is about their entitlement to have representatives in some structure of social dialogue. The Silesia declaration talks about decent work and quality jobs.

I recognise Mr. Mulvey is looking to good practice, and I hope we can contribute to good practice by what we do in Ireland. Mr. Mulvey mentioned warehouses and call centres. It is worth noting that the state of coalfields report in the UK found that call centres which replaced coal jobs with poor quality employment and poor quality contracts had terrible results in terms of pay, conditions and morale in that area. This was in contrast to the Ruhr valley coal companies, where workers looked to redeployment into new industries of equivalent standing and status.