Ms Brigid Quilligan:

It does work. It has been proven to work globally in many different areas. There is a history of affirmative action in the State relevant to Travellers. I call it affirmative action. It is the primary healthcare programme. That budget is ring-fenced specifically for Travellers, arising out of the findings of the all-Ireland Traveller health study about the poor statistics relating to Traveller health and the social determinants of health. We have a group across the country of more than 400 primary healthcare workers who go out to deliver healthcare in a peer-to-peer way every day. They do magnificent work. They have all benefited from a national training programme which was rolled out before people around the country, including myself, were taken on. That is one model of affirmative action.

Another is smaller but as effective if one is looking at the small numbers of Travellers in employment in the State in the public sector. Lord have mercy on Joe Horan's soul since he was a great man. When he was in South Dublin County Council, he introduced a programme of affirmative action where he took on people under the special initiative. Some of those people are employed today across local authorities around the country. That was a small sample of how that could work. They were brought in at a very low level and supported to work their way up the ranks like anybody else. In doing that, one has to look at all the barriers that exist for Travellers such as the leaving certificate. One has to look at par learning, skills and experience and at people's aptitude. We have to change the way we look at things. I know I am deviating a little but the apprenticeship model is perfect. There are 12 and 13 year olds in Kerry who want to do apprenticeships. A normal person working in the education sector will laugh at them and say they are 12 or 13. We have 12 year olds who know what they want to do. There are possibilities of affirmative action but we have to change our way of thinking and listen to the needs of the community. In my own town, among nomadic people, I could ask ten young fellows if they will stay in school if I can have them trained by the age of 17.

We could negotiate a partnership with their families to keep those young people in the system and ensure they graduate from an apprenticeship scheme but that requires a shift in thinking. All of these affirmative actions are very easy to do if one is willing to change one's thinking. There are models in the United States and Australia. Anywhere one has had an ethnic minority who have been oppressed and marginalised the powers that be had to bring in affirmative actions because there is no other way to leverage things. A whole community here, and I mean people my age, were segregated. Now, children of six and seven years have been put on reduced timetables and attend schools for one hour a week or one hour a day. What are their chances of success when they have less of an education than their parents and grandparents enjoyed? I am passionate about this matter because we are dealing with children who are experiencing this.