Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Something is fundamental to this. We all understand that there is Scouting Ireland now. We all accept that and have given goodwill to the new procedures and protocols that have been put in place relating to governance. However, Mr. Tennant is here as head of Scouting Ireland. I argue that he must also answer for what happened in the CBSI and the SAI. Our job here is to interrogate the dynamic that led to allegations against persons not being dealt with by the organisation. I am still unclear in my mind as to why, if the Children First guidelines were adopted in 2012, it took a full five years before Scouting Ireland brought in Ian Elliott. During that time, and arguably now, there were persons in the organisation, and I do not know if they are still in the organisation, who took receipt of information from people who were traumatised and those case files were put into a filing cabinet. A review was to have taken place in 2012 but we remain blind about where that review went, how those cases were managed and whether there are people who are part of the 2017 to 2019 review who are taking receipt of the information who are still part of the staff. We want to understand the culture that existed within the organisation. If, as Mr. Tennant suggests, the new broom is sweeping clean, are there people who were in receipt of information in 1987 and 1996, the years which were subject of the "RTÉ Investigates" programme, who are still on the staff and are part of the old culture who continue to be employed? That is the kernel of the matter. Mr. Tennant speaks of Scouting Ireland opening up its processes and creating helplines, but I find it hard to understand how anybody who was dealt with by personnel in 1987 or 1996 might find themselves being dealt with by the same personnel in 2017, 2018 or 2019. Does Mr. Tennant understand how that might look extremely bad for an organisation such as Scouting Ireland?

Mr. Tennant is putting a lot of store in the Ian Elliott process. Everyone here accepts Ian Elliott's bona fides, but what they do not buy is that regardless of whether he is a consultant, he is paid by Scouting Ireland to conduct a review and therefore he is an employee of Scouting Ireland. We are questioning the independence of the process. What we are trying to get at is what will arise from the Elliott process when he reports. Regardless of whether he likes it, Mr. Tennant has an idea of how this will play out because he strikes me as someone who has gamed this, which I do not mean in a pejorative sense. He knows how the process is going; we do not. I do not know the contents of Ian Elliott's report. I am very concerned that it will go into the public domain and the people who made complaints in 1987 and 1996 and the people who were the subject of the "RTÉ Investigates" programme will have no justice, recourse or right of reply. Does Mr. Tennant see my point?