Mr. Robert Watt:

There has been an enormous improvement in the capacity of the Civil Service to analyse and prepare policy and advise the Government. That is the core function. There are 40,000 civil servants. There are many civil servants who are providing a direct service but there is a core of 3,000 or 4,000 who are engaged in policy work from all the different areas. We have done a lot to improve the capacity. I will mention two initiatives, the first of which is the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service where we professionalised economic expertise. We set up a new structure, and I am very proud of the service we have developed.

In my remarks, I mentioned the number of policy papers we have produced and the quality of the analysis. We are much better at using data. Through the national data infrastructure, we can share and combine data sources to get better insights into what is happening. I am happier that the Civil Service has far more capacity to analyse. The Senator knows this from talking to people in Departments. They have a great understanding of the policy issues and the options. People can be brought in for particular jobs. It does not make sense to have an expert on a particular activity who may be required intermittently or every few years all year but one may require a certain expertise. Consultancy houses that have reach into other countries can help because somebody involved in policy issues in other OECD countries can help. There is a balance to be struck. I would be very worried if Departments were overly reliant on consultants. That is not a good sign. If a Department goes back repeatedly to consultants to ask for advice on policy issues that are central to that Department, that Department needs to build capacity in-house because, ultimately, it is a better system to have professional civil servants who are there acting in the public interest and who are trained in building capacity and have the values of our service around objectivity and impartiality. It is much better to have that type of administrative structure than the alternatives. Too much reliance on consultants is a bad thing but there is a balance to be struck. Optimal spending is not zero. I do not know what the optimal spend is but it is not zero. We will come back to the Senator regarding some of the numbers she quoted but some of those involve ICT projects and legal support as opposed to policy.

It is interesting to think about the value of that spend in the overall context of the pay bill for the Civil Service, which is approximately €2.5 billion. How is this consultancy spend relative to the overall size of the service? I agree with the Senator that it is a challenge, which is why since 2011, we have put a strong emphasis on building capacity. There is still a reliance. Getting the balance is the correct thing. There has been a reliance in some places on ICT. In effect, if one had the same contractor there providing that support, ultimately, one does not have the capacity in the office or Department to draft the contract properly, procure properly and manage the contract. That is one of the things on the ICT side where we built up the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer, OGCIO, and our in-house chief information officer capacity. We increased the budget and the number of people so that we do more of that software development in house. There is a balance to be struck. If a Department is too reliant on external assistance, that raises questions about the capacity and management of the organisation.