Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

One would always appreciate that. One always appreciates that there is a ratio of staff to children. That is a given and it is widely understood in every context where one is dealing with children. If in parsing a figure of €6,000, the Minister is saying it is across residential, voluntary, statutory and private providers, and if a certain number of private companies are offering the service, how much of the €6,000 is for profit in private facilities? The private providers are obviously offering the service because the State is not in a position to do so. How much do the private companies have the State over a barrel - I do not mean that in a pejorative way - because of the lack of supply of State-funded facilities for the provision of services to children with complex needs and children who need residential placements? I do not deny that we need to use private companies where there is a lack of supply in the public sector but I am worried that it is always possible to make a charge that private companies can profiteer in providing such a service. That is my worry. A figure of €6,000 per week, or €312,000 per annum, is an extraordinary amount of money. That is why I asked the question about the breakdown in the first instance.

If we are involved in an Estimates programme here — it is one of the few powers we have as Deputies in terms of interrogating the Estimates, especially where a Supplementary Estimate is sought from the Houses of the Oireachtas — it is vital that we have a breakdown of the €6,000 and that we have more oversight in respect of how much the private providers are actually earning as private providers of what is essentially a vital service that nobody would deny to any child.