Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I welcome our guests. Ms Gray appeared before the committee eight or nine months ago. The presentation was very interesting. It set out a strong trend for Coillte into the future. We all agree that Coillte has an important role to play in terms of regional biodiversity. It also has an important role in employment in the rural economy by providing approximately 12,000 jobs. It is highly export-oriented, which leaves it exposed to the ups and downs of Brexit. I read the climate action plan, which is the Government's policy that was produced in June, and I am aware that expansion of forestry is to play a key role to contributing to carbon abatement by 2021 and thereafter. How can we be serious about that? There was an objective of 10,000 ha for new forests and woodlands when I was in school clothing. We never came within an ass's roar of achieving it. We fiddled around with 5,000 ha and 6,000 ha and in the new climate action plan there is a target of 8,000 ha. Am I right in stating that this is the first time it has ever been identified? It is in the climate action plan.

I suggest that it is time to take this out of the Department altogether. The Scots are up to between 12,000 ha and 13,000 ha. Scotland is not dissimilar in climate or anything else, but we are into lip service because it is captured within a Department. The Scots have a forestry commission and I believe it is time to do that. What do the representatives of Coillte wish to say about that? I realise that the company just implements Government policy. In 2011, we were delighted to get any dividend from Mr. Lowery. It was difficult to extract any money from him that time. I was in government at the time. To remind colleagues who are roaring and shouting about what 2011 was like, we were going around to every State and semi-State company and begging for a couple of million. We had been told the coffers were bare and the money would be gone in 15 weeks. That is what we had to face. Some people might not know that but some day I will write the history, as I was there, telling of everything that happened. We begged Mr. Lowery and others to get a few shillings at the time, and we did.

The essential objective should be a sustained commitment to promoting forestry. Some of the matters Deputy Cahill raised illustrate where we are going. The Deputy knows the answer. There is not enough wood to keep the factories going over the coming months. Everybody knows that. A good barrister never asks a question unless he knows the answer. Deputy Cahill is a bit of a barrister and he knows the answer to that question. He is asking it of the witnesses and I am answering it for them. There is not enough wood.

Let us be clear about what happened. There is negativity about forestry. There were negative effects for small forestry farmers. As soon as the digitisation of premia was introduced, down they went. There was a major problem with that. There is indecision in respect of ash dieback. We know it will cost a multitude of millions to compensate the unfortunate people who got into growing ash and who are still suffering. It is shocking to see how people are suffering in Limerick, Tipperary, Kerry and across some of the midlands, the consequences of that and the indecision that has occurred. There are stringent requirements and a great deal of bureaucracy and paperwork.

While carbon sequestration is important, there are other economic benefits as well, such as forestry tourism and social, environmental and health benefits. In terms of carbon sequestration, is it Coillte's view that a major expansion of native woodland, which Coillte is committed to, or fast-growing conifers, which many people object to, is the best opportunity for carbon sequestration? Is that an issue? I note the Coillte Nature initiative. It is very good.

Coillte is moving back into commercial forestry plantation. How can it move into anything? One cannot fight a war unless one has soldiers. Coillte has 800 employees. There were nearly that number at one time in counties Laois, Offaly, Westmeath and Longford. I know that because my late uncle worked with them. If one went to any forest, one would see plenty of people working, but now nobody is working in the forests. One would see the caise an phúca mushrooms a lot more often than one would see human beings. How can Coillte be serious about achieving targets when it does not have anybody to do the work? Coillte has improved its performance with earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation, or EBITDA, up over 4%, but it is going down as a source of employment for workers. I always say that to its representatives, and I said it to their predecessors. It has fallen on deaf ears. Coillte has no interest in employing people. That is one of the matters it is not addressing, notwithstanding that it has an important role to play.

In terms of the business, what is the rate of return for the forestry assets in the accounts? Coillte had a five-year programme in 2015. Is that renewed or is the company bringing forward a new programme to set in place the transformation strategy upon which it embarked? What is it doing in that regard? What is the position with the Avondale Forest Park development? Has it gone through planning or is it up and running? Medite Smartply is a panel manufacturing business and there is an associated Medite. How are they doing? Do they continue to generate new markets for panel manufacturing?

Those are critical areas but to maintain the forests Coillte has at present and to continue to plant them commercially, and I am glad Coillte is going back into commercial replanting, there appears to be a reluctance to tell the Government what it is doing wrong. I do not hear that from Coillte. I believe the Government is all over the place and that is why it is time to take it from the Government. A forestry commission would be a better way to achieve targets. Otherwise, ten years hence we will still be talking about trying to achieve 8,000 ha. It will be like draining the Shannon in that we will spend years trying to achieve it. We should be aiming to plant 12,000 ha because it can make a huge contribution. The Government is wrong. It should be helping small farmers who have a poor area of land to plant that land. It should encourage them and increase the premiums to enable them to get a decent return. There is a great deal of marginal land and if farmers are unable to reclaim it they should be given an opportunity to do that, rather than penalise them.