Ms Phil Ní Sheaghdha:

The issue this year and last year was not that people are not interested in working when they graduate; it is that they were prevented from getting jobs because there was a recruitment pause or because jobs were not available to them to apply for. As I stated, we had to work very hard as a trade union to ensure graduates were offered posts this year. That was following a commitment from the Minister for Health that they all would be.

There are two fairly simple solutions. There is oversubscription in respect of school leavers applying to do nursing, which is good. Therefore, we know that students in school who are considering their career choices still consider nursing. Although the CSO figures indicate a drop, there is still oversubscription. The point is that if we provide more undergraduate places, they will be filled. We need to train more nurses and midwives but we also need to make sure that when they qualify, there will be jobs made available to them. That is simply done. We have put our proposal in this regard to the HSE in the past. When nurses and midwives are trained, they become employees in their fourth year. The get a contract of employment for 36 weeks. That contract needs to be extended to include the first year after qualification. It is simple. It cuts out all the bureaucracy of recruitment. The point is that the individuals are qualified and trained. Once they pass their exams, posts should be made available to them in order to consolidate their training. This would guarantee that they would stay. If they do not, they will have a reason other than one we are currently battling, which is that posts are not being offered to them.

In the context of existing places, there are 920 for general nursing, 140 for general and sick children, 420 for mental health, 210 for intellectual disability and 140 for midwifery. That amounts to 1,830. As stated in our submission, the conservative estimate from the workforce planners involved the development of the new children's hospital is that we will need 300 sick-children nurses over and above the current number. We are training 140 for general and sick children, which means some of them will remain in the general service after qualification. That is a four-year programme. Accounting for resignations, retirements, etc., we know this end that we will not have enough. Therefore, we need to increase the number significantly in order to staff the hospital.

We stated in our submission that much of the debate has been on the capital expenditure on the children's hospital. The workforce planning has not got an airing. It needs to because, although a very expensive hospital may be opened, it may not be possible to staff it. Therefore, some of the wards will remain closed. Those responsible for staffing must be cognisant of the fact that each of the rooms in the wards will be different. Being single rooms, a higher number of staff will be required. This is particularly the case for a children's hospital. That is a genuine issue. There are two ways of dealing with that. One is to recruit intensively now and do everything possible to retain every graduate within the discipline. That includes removing all obstacles of a procedural nature that are introduced by the employer, including a pause in recruitment. The second way involves increasing the number of undergraduate places to ensure supply will meet the need.