Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for the contributions. I am glad we are discussing this issue today but regret that we were not discussing it a couple of years ago. It has been on the long finger for far too long. Many of us, particularly those from rural constituencies like mine, have been dealing with this issue in our clinics and in real life with our neighbours for some time because of the current inequity that must be addressed.

I want to acknowledge at the outset, and I am not always in this space, the work of the Minister of State, Deputy Daly, in respect of this issue. To be fair to him, he took it on when others would not. I acknowledge that across politics because he progressed it when others did not.

The fact that this issue has not moved on is affecting decision making across families. I see it; I live on our family farm. There are many people close to me, geographically as well as personally - they are my neighbours - and the fact that this has not been dealt with is impacting on intergenerational issues. It is impacting on decision making. It is changing people's lives and careers. It is affecting diversification. As a Government and a country, we are encouraging diversification in farming but because this decision has not been made, this is impacting on investment, credit and a range of other issues.

I have a number of questions. I would say that, in the main, they are the same questions most members will have for the witnesses. They are the ones people raise with us in our clinics. These questions are for the Department officials rather than the IFA. On the issue of leasing to third parties and excluding them from the three-year gap, what are the plans to deal with that? This cannot go forward without this issue being dealt with in some way or having some form of criteria that will change the interpretation. The witnesses might explain why they are not willing to examine this, or are they willing to look at it? Perhaps they have changed their minds about it. As has been outlined, and as I have said, it contradicts Government policy in numerous other areas. We could cite many examples. Only one has been cited here in respect of agricultural relief but if I went far enough I could pull out examples across other areas. How will that issue be dealt with? It will have a significant impact as regards this scheme because on the one hand many farmers, dare I say it, of my generation have been encouraged to go in a certain direction in respect of leasing but the condition here will impact on the scheme. That is my first question.

The second issue is one I have juggling with for some time because I do not know how it will work. It relates to the clawback. I refer to the penalty in respect of the clawback for less than five years of assets that have been transferred. I have no idea how this will work, and it is not outlined. How does the Department put a condition on a third party who has received the asset? How will that work legally? The witnesses might outline that. There needs to be some form of criteria in respect of that because the way the heads of the Bill are written is puzzling. I have no way of knowing how this will work.

The third issue relates to the actual timing of this Bill. As I said in my introduction, many people are being conditioned as regards its timing. We will have to bring in some form of retrospective application for those who are in nursing homes and new entrants in respect of this Bill. In some cases, people have had to make decisions in a rushed way. Some families had been holding out but could not hold out any longer. We will have to apply this legislation retrospectively in some way. I am open to discussing the dates. I have no fixed date in my head. The Department could look at the date it was published and other dates but the likelihood is that in the current political environment the passage of the Bill through the legislative process could go on for some time. I would like to see it done before this Dáil is due to conclude by next March, April or May. Do the Department officials intend having this scheme legislated for by then? We will have to retrospectively insert something in the legislation to make it applicable to those people to whom I referred. Those are my three questions, all of which are for the Department officials.