Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome both witnesses. I cannot take from anything my colleagues have said so far. I do not wish to go back over the same ground. I will start with Turkey if I may. I compliment the ambassador on his use of the Irish language and his wonderful singing of "Amhrán na bhFiann" at his national day. It shows a true desire to become integrated into Irish society while he is here.

The west has not been good to the east, in particular the Middle East. We have set up demigods and then we have sought to tear them down again. When I say "we" I am talking about western military powers outside of Ireland. They have moved into countries and then sought to tear down the people they have set up. They have interfered in countries right across the Middle East and, to a large degree, some of our friends are responsible for the instability that now exists throughout the Middle East. There are many questions to be answered. Even right now in Turkey we see that the Americans said they were pulling out and left disaster behind them. They left the state far more unstable than it was. I do not for one moment agree that the incursions into Kurdish areas in Syria are acceptable. I believe that Turkey has a right to protect its borders but I do not believe that right extends to moving into a foreign country and taking hold of land to protect itself. I just do not accept that under any circumstances. That is a question Turkey is going to have to answer soon. I agree with what Deputy Crowe has just set out. There are significant questions to be answered and Turkey will have to deal with them.

On the other side of the equation, we were happy in the EU to dump as many migrants, refugees and anything else one cares to think of into Turkey, at a financial gain for Turkey, or if one wants, we pawned off our problems on Turkey, gave it a load of money and said it should look after all those people as we do not want them. When one does that, one creates bitterness and an unacceptable approach to what is now an international problem with respect to migration and refugees. The two terms are used interchangeably. We must sit down as nation states and decide what is a migrant and what is a refugee. As a country that was famous for its migration as far back as history can go, we are in no position to judge anybody's rules on migration, other than the fact that we should be open to migration and we should try to manage it, whether it is economic or for whatever other reason. I take my hat off to Turkey for taking on the problems of Europe. To a certain degree, Turkey has been thrown under the bus for helping Europe.

The ambassador and I spoke earlier about Islam. Turkey is an Islamic state. There is a job of work in this regard and Turkey is ideally placed to do it. Islam is not fundamentalism, as in the ISIS view of Islam. Islam is a peace-loving religion. People have views as to how strong or weak the religious rules should be. We in ireland cannot throw any stones either because from the foundation of the State we danced to the tune of one particular religion for many years. We were dominated by it. Legislation had to be presented to the Archbishop of Dublin before it could be implemented. The problem in the west now is that Islam has been demonised and, by so doing, we have demonised countries that have a leaning towards Islam. That is worrying because I wonder if our colleagues throughout the EU that should be moving towards accession talks with various countries in that part of the world are looking through glasses that see Islam and fear rather than how accession could bring greater stability to the region. There is a job of work to be done in that regard. I say that as a sceptic with respect to enlargement. My training in economics tells me that we must be careful about the diminishing marginal returns from enlargement.

Brexit has opened a number of controversial doors throughout Europe. Some countries are moving towards nationalism, borders, barbed wire, checkpoints and to the far right. We see the rise of the right in many nations around Europe. However, other countries are taking strong views on religion and colour. Those are all very dangerous issues. They hark back to a time in Europe we all want to forget so I am concerned about that. Like Deputy Crowe, I am not asking questions. What I am trying to do is articulate the issues as I see them throughout Europe.

North Macedonia has gone through hell and high water to change the name of the country to try to appease its next door neighbour. I am sure citizens are asking what else they have to do and what will be the next demand. As Europeans, we have to be aware that one can only push people so far. I have never seen the European project as a peace project. The Balkans worry me, not necessarily North Macedonia. There is a rush to accede to the EU in the hope that it will underpin a sensitive and troublesome peace. I wonder how that sits with North Macedonia at the moment.

Turkey, in particular, must start making sounds that people in Europe want to hear. I do not for one moment suggest that Europe does not have to move its position as well. I would welcome accession if it could be shown not to bring diminishing marginal returns economically, but also on the social and civic side that would question the mores we hold so dear in Europe.

I do not want to see those eroded because we are moving to somewhere else. I visited Turkey some years ago. We have a relationship with Turkey that dates right back to Gallipoli and all that went on there. We have strong ties with Turkey. Whether we go to Turkey to visit our dead, or on holidays, we are always welcomed. I want to see Turkey move but I am concerned about the current regime and people being locked up, as mentioned by Deputy Crowe. I cannot understand why people fear the Kurds in that part of the world. Turkey must start getting its house in order or the windy, bumpy road it is on will reach a cul-de-sac very quickly, which would be bad for Europe not just Turkey.