Ms Catherine Joyce:

-----the positive impact of that statement in a real way. To assess it now is premature.

The biggest obstacle to third level education for many Traveller children and many people with whom we deal who are no longer children and have come through the programmes we develop is their opinion of it. Their opinion is that it is not for them, will not lead to a job in which they will not be discriminated against and is not something they can bring back and use in their community. Unfortunately, that is the situation. Many members of the Traveller community who go to third level - only 1% of Travellers do so - end up getting jobs in mainstream employment where they do not identify as Travellers. There are Travellers who are gardaí, nurses, teachers or working in mainstream employment and may even encounter Travellers in their everyday life but they do not identify as Travellers in their employment situation out of fear of what that would mean in terms of discrimination and racism in that employment. Third level education is not in the psyche of many young Travellers.

On the possibility of attending third level, if one is discriminated against, marginalised and receives reduced hours in school, the possibility of progression through the second level education system and into third level is nil because one does not have the same academic achievement as one's settled peers. Academic achievement is measured by points and marks and so on. It will not happen for many Travellers.

Access programmes are brilliant when they work well for people, but there is a financial burden involved in going back to education at 24 years of age. A 24 year old member of the Travelling community is probably married with children and may have additional issues such as homelessness or a lack of access to accommodation, services or goods. All of those factors prevent a person from taking on third level education because, as a parent, they become more important than personal achievement. I can categorically make that statement as a person who left school at 12 years of age. Through the years, I had opportunities to go back to education but family life took over. That is the situation for many people.

The reality is that adult Travellers miss out on such opportunities because our culture is different from that of settled people. Settled people can go back to education at 20 years of age or 40 years of age. Many go back to education as grandparents. The role of Travellers has changed within Irish society. I work with Traveller children who were in the foster care system. One of the biggest challenges with those children is to try to promote their dual identity. Many of them are placed in care with settled people; very few are placed in their own community. I try to educate the foster carers to look after the dual identity of Traveller children.

Many of those families are really good, but many others are settled people with their own prejudices, experiences, and racist attitudes towards Travellers. It is important to think of third level education as a practical thing which Travellers have a real possibility of accessing, progressing in and getting some kind of employment from. We have to think of the lived experience of Travellers when discussing such matters. It is okay to talk about hypothetical things and what positive impacts they could have, but we have to look at and acknowledge the lived experiences of Travellers when it comes to the developments or changes that need to happen in programmes and policies.

Finally, if a new educational strategy is to be developed, it must have measured and targeted goals as well as financial resources. This Minister and the next one must address the cuts made to the Traveller education budget, which are having a detrimental effect on our community and our young people. Their possibilities are being limited by the State.