Ms Catherine Joyce:

On ethnicity, it is important to note that Travellers have various opinions on the impact of the announcement in 2017. Some Travellers have stated that it has made things worse because it created an expectation that Travellers would be accepted and our cultural differences would be promoted and recognised. As Ms Maria Joyce pointed out, it took us 30 years to get that announcement made. I was actively involved in that campaign, as were many others. It was what it was - an announcement. No programme was put in place to explain what ethnicity is, how it is developed or why it is important for wider society as well as the Traveller community. Particularly in counties Kildare and Kerry, Travellers who had never been involved in Traveller organisations, protests or campaigns took cases against pubs and hotels in the expectation that the announcement would give them some standing and back-up in terms of challenging the people discriminating against them. However, it did not do so. Rather, it did the opposite and polarised the issue to a greater extent. More focus was put on the difference between Travellers and settled people in a negative way. Although the announcement was welcomed by Traveller organisations, Travellers on the ground may have a very different experience in terms of what it means to them.

Likewise, it is important that we consider the fall-out of any actions being taken in the education system - I acknowledge that issues other than education are also being considered - and ensure that they do not further disenfranchise the Traveller community. We should not pursue a good idea or gesture or goodwill without putting in place programmes, as well as sanctions for discriminating against Travellers, and removing any discrimination against or marginalisation of Travellers by the State. The recognition of ethnicity meant nothing to many Travellers.

That is the unfortunate truth.

I remember talking to a woman from the Sámi community about their ethnicity being acknowledged in the 1970s and the difference it made for them. It did not make a difference overnight; it took 25 years of programmes, state intervention and rolling back on laws that prohibited the Sámi people from living as an ethnic minority group within Sweden and other Nordic countries. Some of the by-laws that inhibited their traditional way of life were rowed back on. One such by-law which is very relevant to the Traveller situation prohibited reindeer herders from travelling at particular times of the year or on particular paths that were traditional to the Sámi people, all of whom were reindeer herders. Some of those laws were rowed back, which opened up those traditional ways for the Sámi people to retain and develop their reindeer herding culture. It is a bit premature to ask what difference the 2017 announcement made. In 25 years' time, after ten or 20 years of positive State intervention and undoing of the damage done to Travellers by the State, we might be able to see-----