Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am next on the list to ask a question in any event. I hope it will not take too long. I welcome Mr. Lemass and thank him for his concise presentation.

I want to set the context for my questions. In September, we heard that more than €2 billion in Government funding had been given to unregulated bodies to provide for social housing over the past ten years. That money went to a variety of co-operatives, associations, charities and other non-profit groups clustered under the heading of AHBs. That was stated at our previous engagement here. Despite the great sums of money and substantial contribution of the AHBs to social housing provision, providing 40% of all new social housing in the country last year, they still have no statutory basis for their operation. If Mr. Lemass wants to dispute that, I am happy to take it on board but those are the figures.

I welcome the legislation; it is really important. It is long overdue and we have had a lot of discussion about it. Between 2009 and 2018, the AHBs received €1.745 billion in funding directly from the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government or channelled through the local authorities. To date this year, they have received €260 million in capital funding and €210 million for current spending. Those are the figures. I have researched and checked them with the Department. I acknowledge the vastness of this thing. It is hard to believe that these AHBs to date have had no strong regulation. The legislation is therefore welcome. Mr. Lemass might pass on a personal view of mine to the effect that the Minister might consider initiating this legislation in the Seanad if possible. It is open to the Minister. I understand that people are keen to get on with the legislation. Any legislation can be initiated in either House. The Seanad is not sitting today but I am sure it would welcome the opportunity. I have spoken to the Minister about initiating other legislation in the Seanad and he has said he is mindful of and open to the idea, subject to timescales and other considerations within his Department. I ask Mr. Lemass to bring my request to the Minister's attention that he might consider it. It is ultimately a matter for the Minister and I fully respect that.

What happens in the case of insolvency or examinership in the context of an AHB? We know there have been some complications in examinership and insolvency issues regarding AHBs in the past. This is not a new scenario. Mr. Lemass will be familiar with it. Could he outline the grounds on which the regulator can cancel the registration of an AHB? There are going to be knock-on effects of that. Senator Kelleher touched on the issue of what happens to dwellings where an AHB registration is cancelled. There are significant concerns for residents and many implications for ongoing management. There may be reluctance on the part of other AHBs or local authorities to take on such dwellings, particularly if there is a complex legal matter involved or if there are major issues around the governance of the outgoing AHB. Not everyone will be queueing up to take these on. There are some serious concerns about AHBs.

There is clearly a need for a protocol between AHBs and the Department and, more importantly, the local authorities, which are the statutory housing authorities. I understand a draft protocol was being worked on and that some of the bigger AHBs were keen to see one. Inevitably, there are conflicts and in the past there was a lot of unnecessary and uncalled for competition and comparison regarding the delivery of AHBs versus that of local authorities, how they raise funding and the different mechanisms used. There has been a great deal of concern on the part of elected members in particular about feeling isolated or not fully versed in what AHBs are doing within their local authority areas. That is not to say that local authorities should have a veto over AHB work but there needs to be good working relationships between the housing authority, the AHBs and the general sector dealing with the provision of housing under the AHB system. I understand that the heads of some sort of protocol were drawn up. Mr. Lemass may not know about it but he might undertake to look into it and bring back a memo or report to the committee.