Mr. Ronan Lupton:

On the mechanics, after one of the meetings of the committee, a headline appeared about telecommunication executives being made criminally liable for content transmitted across pipes. According to the mere conduit defence, in the case of what is transmitted on telecommunications companies' pipes or fibre network, if they do not know what it is, they do not know what it is, until such time as they do, when they have an obligation to act and remove it. That is a separate defence under European law, the same law I deal with on the hosting site.

Platforms above that, such as Facebook, Google and Twitter, have the hosting defence. Similarly, once content becomes known to them, the information is removed and a defence arises. Under both those defences, there is an obligation on the State not to mandate monitoring but it can mandate duties of care. The question is where the line arises between duty of care and monitoring, because the bottom line is that the latter cannot be done. I am concerned that something will arise from a report that indicates that the State will change the law, which may cause a jarring effect and lead to an incompatibility with European law. It is the wrong approach.

On the point on Garda resources, I fully support, accept and associate myself with Dr. McIntyre's statement to the committee. We mentioned each other in respect of the e-commerce elements of our submissions. Two cases, those of Joe O'Reilly and Graham Dwyer, were heavily dependent on telephone records and other types of records that were acquired, such as number plate recognition on the M50. In the context of the Dwyer litigation, triangulation of mobile phones was undertaken by civilian members of An Garda Síochána, who were very clever and managed to gather circumstantial evidence to result in the prosecution. On the question of whether the Garda requires resources in a number of areas, the direct answer is "Yes". Its needs significant resources for combatting child pornography and the most egregious forms of crime that occur on the Internet.

Other forms of crime, such as murder and rape, are no less serious, although I do not want to scale crimes. There should be another unit to deal with such activity. As I noted in my statement, crimes that occur daily go unprosecuted and un-investiagted because tackling serious crimes is so under-resourced that it takes attention away from what is currently pervasive. A person could be subject to a cybercrime and need it addressed but can approach only his or her local Garda station to report it. If the case is not transferred to the central function in Garda headquarters to investigate it properly, good luck. It will be a case of taking one's chances with the vendor or bank in question, which can try to deal with the problem, even though a criminal act has occurred. Significant resources are needed in the area. To return to what Deputy O'Callaghan raised earlier, how do we enable the citizen to seek civil recourse? It may be that a digital safety-type function is required whereby someone can say what has happened but that he or she is not sure if it is a crime, and request an assessment. There is room for the State to do that.

For years I have sat on various groups that deal specifically with the reporting of child content online, such as the Department's Internet advisory board and Internet safety advisory committee, and now the National Advisory Council for Online Safety. A hotline.ieservice exists for reports but it does so in isolation and is funded by the telecommunications industry. While its works well and closely with the Garda, I know from first-hand experience that the resources are not available to manage and marry the function, which is voluntary. Its content analysts view horrible reports they encounter from time to time. It is part of the wider European INHOPE network, which receives reports. Telecommunications companies are worried, given the current state of legislation, that holding blocking lists may create a criminal offence for them. That needs to be examined. While I acknowledge that legislation takes time to process, they are the types of quick wins that could create a different approach to behaviour online.