Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Niall Collins asked about the migrant crisis. My understanding is that a temporary deal was reached at the meeting in Malta. This deal will be presented to the Council of Ministers in Luxembourg on 8 October next. I hope we will be able to buy into that and support it. I think there is a broader question here. The temporary deal essentially involves trying to respond to the immediacy of the migrant problem in the Mediterranean. The question of what the EU collectively should do to try to deal with this issue is a much bigger one. Over the next 20 years, one of the defining issues for the EU will be the manner in which it deals with dramatic population growth in its neighbourhood. People in the Middle East and particularly on the continent of Africa have the ability to move around and want the kind of lifestyle the EU provides. It is going to be difficult to contend with this challenge. Deals will continue to be done between the EU and Turkey. In some ways, this is far from ideal but it is a pragmatic response as we try to deal with the vast numbers of refugees who have come from Syria and other conflict zones. There is a constant balancing act for politicians in this regard. I am very liberal when it comes to migration, but I understand that an approach to migration that is too open and too generous tends to get a response at election time from an electorate that can be quite conservative on these issues when it is asked to change and to accommodate large numbers of people in a short space of time. We need to accept that this is what happened in Italy, which had quite a generous approach to disembarkation and was dealing with substantial numbers of people who were coming across the Mediterranean. Virtually all of the disembarkation from Irish vessels was into Italian ports. The Italian Government asked over and again for solidarity and support from other member states, but it did not get it. The electorate gave its answer when it put in place a Government that takes a hard line on this issue. We have to find a way to take a human approach to refugees and asylum seekers across the EU.

We have to bring people with us while doing so. That is one of the issues that Deputy O'Callaghan referred to in the context of the concerning campaigns we have seen emerging to oppose direction provision nationally. In other countries, Ireland is often pointed to as a model for the integration of refugees in towns and villages. While we criticise the standard of accommodation in some direct provision centres, it is not living in the real world for some to call for an end to direct provision as if we can somehow magic over 7,000 people from the system and into their own homes overnight. If one compares how we treat and accommodate migrants versus most other member states, in particular those that have a great many migrants, our direct provision centres are of a significantly better standard. That is not to say they are good enough. We must continue to improve the standard. This is not only about accommodation but also about healthcare supports, social integration, becoming part of communities and so on. We must be careful about how we interact with the communities we ask to accommodate lots of new people. We have probably made some mistakes in that regard. People have legitimate concerns around how a small town or village can accommodate large numbers of new residents. We have to get better at this. If we do not, we will run out of accommodation. We have more than 1,000 refugees and asylum seekers in temporary hotel and bed and breakfast accommodation because we have too few structured direct provision centres. We must address that, be upfront about it, and work with communities to make it viable. I appeal to other political leaders in particular to offer leadership within communities rather than reinforce people's fears. Many of those fears are based on rumour and inaccurate information. I thank Deputy Niall Collins for his comments in this area, which were both accurate and fair. The Government is very conscious of that.

Every member of the committee is concerned about the Middle East peace process. We are open to any proposal, whether legislative or some other initiative, but I cannot support anything I do not believe to be legally sound, such as the occupied territories Bill. The Bill is not implementable and would not change anything. In fact, it would undermine Ireland's capacity to facilitate change. I understand the motivation and frustration behind the Bill and have spoken to Senator Black about that on numerous occasions. No Government, however, can knowingly implement legislation its Attorney General tells it is not legally sound. While we would consider it if we thought otherwise, it is still the case that my only objective in the Middle East peace process is to make something positive happen. I have no other objective. That was the case in New York where I had an opportunity to meet Jared Kushner, with whom I had a long meeting at which the Irish view was made clear with regard to any new peace initiative the USA might bring forward if and when a new Israeli government takes office. I speak regularly to Arab leaders, in particular the Jordanian minister, about what Ireland can do to be constructive within the EU. That is what we are trying to do and we will continue to seek to play that role at UN and EU level. We will do it in such a way as to keep an open dialogue with Israel and Palestinian leaders. In fact, I am meeting the Palestinian ambassador to the UN after this meeting. If members have ideas and proposals, we will happily look at them. If they are helpful and legally sound, we will certainly look at progressing them.

I was asked about Iran and Russia supporting the Assad regime and Syria. The role played by Iran and Russia in Syria has served to prolong the conflict and, thus, the suffering of Syrian people. They have assisted the regime in the violent suppression of its own people, including through support for military attacks. Syria will be discussed at the Foreign Affairs Council in October. Sanctions are already in place on Syria and they have not been lifted. There will come a time at some point when we have to recognise that a transition is taking place and look at how the EU can support it in a responsible way. We have called on all parties with influence on the Syrian regime to exert that influence to ensure civilians are protected and to encourage the Syrian Government to engage fully with the UN-led peace process. We want a political transformation over time that can facilitate significant EU financial and development support to rebuild a country that has been devastated in such a tragic way.

I was asked about ODA. I will be honest and upfront about next week's budget, as I was with NGOs yesterday. I am an open book on ODA. I want us to get to 0.7%. We delivered an extra €116 million to the ODA budget last year and will have to make average increases of approximately €150 million between now and 2030. These are huge numbers but that is what we want to do and are committed to doing. Next week's budget, however, will not be a normal one. We are putting a budget together on the basis of a pessimistic outlook for a no-deal scenario with 0.7% economic growth in 2020, which is, in essence, no growth when one accounts for inflation and so on. As such, expenditure increases across many Departments, including mine, will be much lower than would otherwise have been the case. That will go for ODA as well as everything else. That is not to say we will not increase ODA next week, which we will. I am determined not to go backwards on the percentage of gross national income, GNI. We are currently at 0.31% of GNI and will have to spend more money on ODA simply to hold it at that percentage. I am insisting that we do not go backwards on our journey to 2030 and 0.7%. We spend well over €800 million a year and will add to that next week. However, it will not be anything like what we were able to do last year, which was more than €100 million. It will be a lot less, I am afraid, reflecting the reality across all Departments of what a no-deal Brexit could mean. We will have to make very significant financial provision to support vulnerable sectors should the disruption of a no-deal Brexit take effect. We must also factor in 0% growth. Unless it is hugely irresponsible, a government does not increase spending by 3% to 5% if growth is flat. In recent years, we have consistently increased expenditure in line with growth in the economy. That will be the same next week or very close to it. I do not want to be negative. We are still committed to being where we need to be by 2030 but it is important to ensure expectations next week are realistic.

I was asked about the Khashoggi murder. Yesterday marked the first anniversary of the death of Jamal Khashoggi and, one year on, we are still waiting for those responsible for his murder to be held to account. That is the truth of it. From the beginning, Ireland has supported calls for a thorough, credible and transparent investigation into this murder, which must get to the facts of the case and ensure there is full accountability for those responsible. While a trial is under way in Saudi Arabia, Irish officials have noted in contacts with officials there the need for greater transparency. The report of the UN special rapporteur, which was released in June, made for sobering reading. She concluded that the murder of Jamal Khashoggi was premeditated and overseen by high-level Saudi officials and that Turkey's efforts to investigate it have been undermined by Saudi Arabia.

The lengthy report is comprehensive and includes a number of detailed recommendations that require careful consideration. This incident should not have happened. The international community needs to be firm and consistent in insisting on trying to get answers as opposed to allowing for some kind of cover-up and for all to move on, and we have been consistent in that regard.

On human rights in Bahrain, last week I met the Foreign Minister for Bahrain in New York where we had quite a good discussion on this issue. We have raised the issue at a senior level. We want a good relationship with the Bahraini Government. There is a recognition that there are human rights considerations and concerns that need to be responded to and addressed. I wish to reassure people that the issue of human rights was very much the topic of conversation.

In terms of Venezuela, this is just a calamity. More than 5 million refugees or migrants have left Venezuela. A huge number of them have poured into Colombia, in particular, but also into many other neighbouring countries. The situation is causing huge tension and resentment. Initially, extraordinary generosity was shown to the Venezuelans. I believe that it is the sheer number of people that neighbouring countries must deal with has caused all sorts of challenges and problems, despite the fact that the countries have been extraordinary generous by and large. In the Dáil we have had some debates to discuss our approach. We recognise that there has to be a political solution. Pressure and sanctions alone are not going to do this. A talks process is under way. Some people are sceptical of the process but we are not. The Oslo process is largely taking place in Barbados and it is a vehicle to find a way forward. We want to continue to encourage engagement with that process. I know that the Norwegian Government is very committed to it and I hope we will see a non-violent outcome to what has been a pretty awful episode in Venezuelan history for so many Venezuelans. I think that is everything.