Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Mr. Lemass said there was a desire for the AHB sector to be reclassified. He will find that there is a desire among most political parties in the Oireachtas to reclassify AHBs and to deal with the situation. It is not just the approved housing bodies which want it to happen. I take it from the statement of the Department of Finance that it is neutral on the question, that it is crunching the numbers but does not have any policy or decision-making role in the matter. That is useful to know because we have been trying to find out whether it was housing, finance or CSO until now, and it has been like trying to pin a tail on a donkey. The donkey in this instance is the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government and that Department is responsible for moving the situation forward.

I am trying to get a handle on the level of engagement on this. My feeling, which could be incorrect, is that the senior level of the Department of Finance does not want this resolved. The policy decision for a reclassification to an on-balance-sheet status suits Government policy on housing, and keeps control over the sector for the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government and the Minister. It was said that, even if we were to borrow privately, it would have to be paid back but we know that. Is it not the case that, at ministerial level in the Department of Finance, it suits Government policy with regard to the delivery of 12,000 housing units per annum? They are saying we are going to get to that level anyway so we do not need the approved housing bodies to ramp up delivery. Deputy Casey and others have raised the concern we have, which is around the fact that while it may be okay to think like this now, it may not be okay to do so in two or three years' time.

What is the level of engagement? The Department of Finance said the proposals received to date from the Housing Alliance would need a lot more detail. Does that refer to the August document submitted by the alliance? If we need more data, have we sought them from the Irish Council for Social Housing or the Housing Alliance? I get the sense that this will be allowed to drift. We will be told the decision has been taken and that is the way it is. We do not need to deal with this issue so we are not going to do anything about it. There was talk of a working group being set up involving the Departments and the AHB sector. Has that happened? Is there a real desire to rectify this problem? It could be a valid position to take that the status quois the preferred option of the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government. If that is the case, the Department would be better to tell us, lest we go around in circles trying to resolve an issue the Department does not want to be resolved.