Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am sorry I was not here for the presentation. I was engaged in something else. Believe it or not, I grew up in a segregated society in Salthill in Galway. Boys swam in different places to girls and girls did not go to the same schools as boys did. It was a different sort of segregation and I am delighted to inform my colleague, Senator Ó Donnghaile, that in 1967, young people found their voices and came forward and we had integrated swimming in Salthill for the first time ever, which was something to behold, and I was fully behind it.

I spent 25 years of my life teaching and I am all for young people having a voice. I am totally against exploiting young people in order for adults to have their voices heard, but that is another story and Senator Ó Donnghaile and I can argue that out in the future. The shared education system is good as a second-class alternative. Integration is the only way forward, but having spent 25 years in education, I can tell the witnesses that education change comes slowly, even with simple matters such as changing a teacher midway through a course. There can be a poor teacher teaching a subject who is replaced by an excellent teacher halfway through a course, and students will complain because people get used to certain systems. I want to go back to 1967 and the introduction of girls into the technical school, for which I must compliment the vocational education system in Ireland because it abandoned religion and concentrated on its core ethos of education. That changed the lives of many of us who went to school there. We saw girls as fellow human beings, and I would hope I carried that attitude with me through my life, rather than as some strange object who were over a wall, as Ms Marshall mentioned. We sneaked up and looked over that wall because we wanted to see what was going on over there.

The work the witnesses are doing is really important. Two weeks ago, I was up in Northern Ireland and I had a long discussion with some people from the Unionist tradition. One of the matters they were applauding was the increased level of mixed marriages in the North. That will impact the provision of the Integrated Education Fund and the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education as time goes on. Every time someone comes from Northern Ireland I regret to say that the "B word" has to be used to talk about budgets. My concern is around funding. If the Integrated Education Fund and the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education are to be successful, two things will matter as they go forward. The first is results. Parents will abandon all beliefs if there are results in the school, regardless of where the school is. I am mindful of a particular school in Dublin that had the most appalling first year to sixth year students. One had to go in there wearing a flak jacket and a gas mask to survive a class but it had one repeat leaving certificate class and parents from the richest parts of Dublin sent their children there because they were guaranteed results. Results are the lifeblood of the school and there is no doubt at all about that. Opening up opportunity is also important. Given that the witnesses have the imagination to be involved in integrated education, I believe they will also be open to alternatives to third-level education. We are pushing too many children to undertake third-level education so I would assume the witnesses are interested in apprenticeships and in parity of esteem across the different vocational and academic routes one can take.

With the onset of Brexit, and we have no idea what will happen with that over the next few days, weeks and months, my concern is that if we have a break between the UK and Europe, the funding that may have been available will be at risk. I am not sure how much of the Integrated Education Fund and the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education's funding would come through the peace process system but if it is not much then maybe they do not have too much to fear. Funding is really important. I am always concerned about politicians in the South talking about what is going on in the North because in truth, so few people from the South travel up and experience the North. It is a wonderful place and a beautiful country and I love the people up there. I also love getting my car fixed up there because it was cheaper for me when I was up there two weeks ago than it would have been down here but that is another day's work. Results and funding are the key issues. Without funding, the Integrated Education Fund and the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education are not able to employ the staff who will provide the results so I am interested in the views of the witnesses on that.