Michelle Mulherin (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Reference was made to the three definitions on energy poverty and how they are measured. In the case of fuel poverty within the home, people are assisted with the fuel allowance payment. In terms of the definitions, I would imagine the net is cast wider than people in receipt of social welfare benefits and would include people on low incomes because they will also be hit by a carbon tax, which they cannot afford. In the discussions between the two Departments, is consideration being given to this cohort of people, who already are under serious pressure and will not be able to afford to upgrade their heating system and so on? These people are very much tied to the use of fossil fuel, be it coal or oil. Those who did manage to get an SEAI grant in recent years did so for the purpose of upgrading their oil boilers. I am concerned about this cohort of people. In terms of our discussions on energy poverty and helping people, we should be talking about both social welfare recipients and lower-income earners. All of these people are already under pressure and they need to be looked after. They are afraid of what will happen in the upcoming budget in the context of a carbon tax.

There is a lot of talk about a just transition and the sectors that will be affected. There is a general acceptance that people living in rural Ireland do not have the option of public transport. While Rural Link is welcome, children cannot avail of it to get to school and it only facilitates people getting into town. There is also a lack of broadband provision in many rural areas. The ambition is towards electric vehicles but I do not envisage these people being able to get their hands on such vehicles for some time. There is a lot of discourse about the pre-2008 cars in respect of which people are already paying high levels of motor tax and which will now be hit with a further addition of carbon tax. What conversation is going on about helping this cohort of people?

My next question is for the ESRI. The objective is no sale of new diesel or petrol cars from 2030 onwards. At what rate do we need to be introducing electric vehicles into the market to meet that target? As I understand it, even with a grant, the cost of an electric vehicle could be approximately €40,000. Many people in rural Ireland own cars that are valued at between €3,000 and €5,000 and they cannot afford to upgrade. If we are to support a just transition, it will be ongoing for years. We need to address the issue of the impact a carbon tax will have on those people because they will not have the choice of travelling by DART and so on. How are these people being accommodated and how might that be reflected in the budget?

Returning to the issue of fuel poverty in people's homes, I understand there is a one year waiting list for the warmer homes schemes. If the carbon tax funding is to be ring-fenced, will there be additional funding for the warmer homes scheme or will people have to continue to wait for a long time for funding to improve the energy efficiency of their homes and thus reduce their bills? Is it proposed to increase the budget allocation for this scheme?

Mr. Kenny mentioned the public consultation. This committee is keenly aware that the measures, many of which are reflected in the Government action plan, require that the public be brought along on the journey with us. I am concerned about the lack of public consultation across the board. Consultation can yield information on what is bearable for people. The objective is to reduce carbon emissions. In my opinion, most people have not been engaged with. I am not taking from the public consultation undertaken by the Department of Finance. My understanding was that there would be roadshows. There are a lot of people calling for action but there will be a huge cost in that regard. It is about making decisions and I do not think people are engaged on that level. In countries that have taken these steps, be that France, Canada and so on, there has been a big backlash and they are not implementable.