Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

It looks like I will have to battle for speaking space. I thank the delegations for being here today and taking the time to make their presentations. In 2016, I spoke about the need to recover the corporate knowledge we had with respect to managing borders, managing freight, and so on. Sitting here today, a number of days out from what is supposed to be the day on which the UK crashes out with or without a deal, we still do not know how people in Border areas are going to manage. We still do not know what is going to happen. I have just come from a briefing with the German-Irish Chamber of Industry and Commerce. A person involved in distribution and logistics spoke. He put on the record some of the problems that lie ahead. I am not 100% sure how to put all these problems before the witnesses, but I will try to work my way through them.

I will deal with Mr. MacCarthy first. I compliment him on the work he does with the airport in Cork. I am desperately sorry the airport lost the transatlantic flights but I met Mr. MacCarthy some years ago and I know that he will drive ahead and find somebody to fill that niche. It is a wonderful airport; fair play to Mr. MacCarthy. I have discussed the issue of the common travel area at the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement on a number of occasions. The common travel area as we know it has no legal underpinning. It is, for all intents and purposes, a gentleman's agreement. Given the way things are going in the UK, nothing is guaranteed. We have no idea where we are going. If I land at Cork Airport, Dublin Airport or Shannon Airport on 1 November, will I find EU-only and non-EU laneways for arriving passengers? Will I be subjected to all the customs checks and everything else? Does Mr. MacCarthy believe that the Government has the structures in place the DAA will need to operate?

I will move past Mr. MacCarthy and speak about Rosslare. The first thing that always bothers me about Rosslare relates to the amount of importing and exporting that goes on there. We have a railway line right to the port and we have hundreds of 40-foot trucks coming off ships all day, every day. The Germans in particular have expressed that there is a need to develop the Port of Cork, Rosslare Europort and, possibly, the Port of Waterford for deep-sea roll-on, roll-off freight on the seabridge route. That brings with it its own problems. If we are using the landbridge, we will have drivers sitting idle for a short period of time. If we use the seabridge route, we will have a driver sitting on a ferry for 30 hours. I do not know what sort of negotiations have taken place on that issue. With regard to Rosslare - and I am addressing Mr. Flynn with this as well - the issue of split loads going out on trucks came up this morning. A truck can take a load, half of which is for delivery to the UK and half for transport on to Europe, which could result in problems.

The central problem discussed this morning was customs and customs clearance. Three years ago I recommended that universities or institutes of technology establish courses in customs clearance and logistics management. I am not aware of any now in place. I do not know where we will get the corporate expertise to manage borders both within the island of Ireland and those encountered when moving through the UK landbridge or the seabridge to Zeebrugge or Doesburg. I have serious concerns. Even in respect of simple things like the description of goods for customs purposes on a T2 form, we are now a little bit loose on the descriptions used. One can just put in a part number and move on. Under customs rules, one will have to give detailed descriptions. Even the invoicing documentation used in the country at the moment is not suitable for inter-customs movement where goods are moving across the UK.

We are still not sure what will happen to a truck leaving Dublin Port to arrive in Liverpool or Holyhead before moving on to Dover to cross the Channel. We are not sure how that will be dealt with from a customs point of view. One particular transport company up in the Cushendall area that transports the raw materials for Coca-Cola and pharmaceuticals has informed me that, if the door of the trailer is opened, the entire contents of the trailer have to come back; they cannot continue through. Can we honestly expect UK customs and border security to turn a blind eye to every truck and to say "Drive on lads, you are from Ireland"? There are some in this organisation who believe there will be a laneway from Holyhead to Dover dedicated to the Irish market. These people should wake up. I do not believe the Mr. Flynn believes his drivers will be given priority over UK drivers as they try to make their way across the country.

I am asking for the witnesses' professional opinions. We had them before the committee some time ago. The clock is now ticking very rapidly and I am of the view that we are in no way prepared. Mr. Flynn spoke about trial runs a little while ago. I am not aware of any trial run having taken place anywhere in the country. More importantly, I am not aware of any trial or training programme having taken place for customs personnel. I am just not aware of any. Going back to Ms Graham of the National Transport Authority, there is the issue of buses crossing over the Border and back. I remember the days when we would go to Jonesborough to buy our Christmas shopping and so on. People were marched off the buses and everything they had was checked. I remember one dear lady wearing two overcoats to avoid whatever taxes or duties were due and dying with the sweat as she got off the coach. I can see no problem with the transport of people, but I see a problem with what people carry. I do not see the UK authorities doing anything with the Border. I see a Turkish-Greek solution. From Finland to Greece, there are 11 countries in the European Union with external borders. None of those countries has a derogation with respect to cross-border activity. It could be argued that their borders are all with the countries of eastern Europe and that there would not be the same level of trade, but I am aware of no derogation for the Irish with respect to Northern Ireland.

I was there two weeks ago for a weekend, and I met many people on the ground, including ordinary people who cross the Border for GAA matches and members of the DUP, the Orange Order and the manufacturing community. I did not meet members of the agricultural community because I had met them before. These people are petrified and nobody is giving them an answer. The speaker at the German event this morning contacted the Irish Government about border movements and movement across the UK, and was given information on transport moving from the Republic of Ireland into the UK, across the UK and into Europe. He then asked about Northern Ireland and was told that we do not talk about that. Is that good enough at this stage of the game?

My final point is on the issue of migration, which also relates to buses. I am not going to get into whether these people are refugees or economic migrants because that is not the issue. The issue is that the European Union has a migration policy. How are we to implement a migration policy if we have freedom of movement across the Border in buses with nobody checking who is on board or where they came from? Migration was a major factor for the British in deciding to pull out of the European Union. Ireland will now be a gateway to the European Union from Britain if people wish to travel through Northern Ireland. This will also apply to Mr. MacCarthy because people arriving at his airports will come under closer scrutiny and may need to be repatriated to wherever they came from. I have thrown many questions at the witnesses but these are the things I am hearing from experts and people on the ground. Many people in Mr. Flynn's industry are also beside themselves because they do not know where they are going.